Rarity of the early wood bow softtop frames?

[waltklatt]

I ventured into the icebox last nighht to snap a few pictures of my spare softtop frame.
I pulled it apart and saw the back rib was different with square profile instead of the usual round profile. 
Confirmed that it is indeed a wood bow soft top frame. 
I couldnt believe my luck with that discovery.
Does anyone have the information when the softtop bow was changed? 
Meredith book and "Mercedes Collector" were not clear.
How many were produced with the wood bow?
The top frame has the additional strengthening bow that Meredith states in the very early 1964 period to reduce the ballooning at speed.
Can anyone help me?
Happy New Year!
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel

[66andBlue]

Hello Walter,
the Spare Parts List Ed C shows that the first chassis without the wood bow (replaced by a steel metal corner bow) was number 06833 [Oct. 1964] , and then was slowly eliminated in another 130 or so and was completely gone starting with chassis number 07641 [Nov. 11, 1964].
Hope to see you at the PUB again! 

[jharkin]

for what it's worth, my 230sl chassis number 6404 has the steel corner bow, and the extra front bow

[66andBlue]

for what it's worth, my 230sl chassis number 6404 has the steel corner bow, and the extra front bow

Interesting. Does it also have the chrome trim piece over the fabric on the outside?

[jharkin]

no chrome  piece   :'(.   the canvas is in really good condition and missing the side wires that should be in the fabric and the exterior screw head at the front outside corners, so i have to believe this is not the original soft top, but i have no reason to think the frame is not original. 

[66andBlue]

John,
if it doesn't have the chrome trim (number 17 in the attached picture) which is normally fixed to the wooden bow below to hold the canvas down, what then holds your canvas in place?  Does it "balloon" at high speed?
If you have a newer canvas perhaps the frame was added (or exchanged) later also? Was you car once a California coupe, by chance?

[Garry]

I know the 190 SL had the chrome strip but I have never seen a W113 with the external chrome strip.   Is there such an item?

[jharkin]

alfred,
the corner bow passes thru a canvas sleeve on the inside of the soft top.
i guess it's possilble that this is a replacement frame. the car is euro spec, built for the non-german euro market.
purchased by  the PO in belgium; according to him he shipped it to the states, then back to belgium, then finally took it to colorado.
i know he replaced the engine with a 129 in the early 80s, had the car repainted at that time, so it's possible the soft topframe is "new" also.
is there any way to determine that? would the soft top frame be numbered?

[J. Huber]

I know the 190 SL had the chrome strip but I have never seen a W113 with the external chrome strip.   Is there such an item?

Sure enough, the earlier cars had the strip. Its actually a nice touch I think. It would make sense that the cars with the wood bow are the ones with the strip -- since it needs somewhere to screw into.

By the way, my wood bow is covered with soft-top material -- I only mention this because some may be mislead to think when we say wood it means exposed wood similar to the dash or console box... (That might look cool though).

[al_lieffring]

The earliest 230sl soft tops had a wooden rear bow and the seam in the top canvas (under the chrome) was left unsewn across the bow. This was done so the tension on the rear window could be adjusted by first tacking the rear pannel of the top to the bow and then the canvas of the front pannel was doubled over forward, tacked down then covered by the chrome strip.
Back when I was puting on tops in the 70's and 80's I couldn't find a supplier that made a replacement top with the unfinished seam for these early frames, so lots of the cars when the top was replaced got the later style (with the finished seam) installed, often the chrome strip was discarded too. The wood on bow was originally wrapped with tan herringbone fabric that matched the top's headliner.

[J. Huber]

Hey Al, mine has that fabric as you mention. Almost a felt material. While the top has been replaced twice in last 25 yrs -- I have been able to keep the original bow covering. Sorry no pics -- its stowed under the hardie right now...

[sjiatrou]

Here're are some quick pix of my wood bow and chrome strip (chassis #1515).  I had a new GAHH soft top installed last year.

[66andBlue]

.. so it's possible the soft topframe is "new" also. is there any way to determine that? would the soft top frame be numbered?

John,
in contrast to the hard top that has part of the VIN stamped on I believe that the soft top frame never came with a stamped number.  So you kind of have to believe what was published in the spare parts list.  As shown in the picture in my previous post item number 1 in the drawing originally was p/n 113 770 0102 which became 113 770 0402. That p/n was installed up to chassis number 007640 with the exception of all those numbers shown in Footnote 22 in the picture below.  Your VIN is not listed among those exceptions.
The metal bow was also installed in those exceptions and then from chassis 007641 on.
--
Steve and James,
I like the old wooden bow better than the new one.  The interior looks more closed and finished compared to the "open" metal bar.

[J. Huber]

Steve, beautiful shots. Top and car look fantastic... Hopefully we can have another nice gathering in the Bay Area this year so I can see it upclose!

Alfred, I agree.

[jharkin]

 thanks for the info. i guess i'll have to add this to why this car has a non-original soft top to the list of unknowns about this car.

[sjiatrou]

Thanks James.  Absolutely, or we can get together for lunch on one of these sunny days.  I think I got sunburned today cruisin' through Carmel Valley.  I just put in a new Timevalve exhaust last week and she purrs along nicely now.

Steve

[Benz Dr.]

My 230 has the soft top with wooden bow and chrome strip. When I got the frame it had a new Robbins top on it so I used that instead of having mine redone.