Author Topic: diff backlash adjustment  (Read 9005 times)

erickmarciano

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • Canada, Quebec, montreal
  • Posts: 544
diff backlash adjustment
« on: April 11, 2009, 22:16:05 »
Hi there
I have read all the past posts I think on the diff but still no awnser . how do we adjust the back-lash on our cars?
my car has an anoying hum from the diff . when «i turn the drive shaft by hand on a lift there is to much slop before the diff engages. I was told with time the diff gets a little lose and the main nut on the diff needs to be set .
thanks
Erick
1994 E500 W124
1971 280sl
1989 Porsche 930 coupe
1988 e30 m3
2001 ducati mh900
2006 ps1000
1962 Vespa GS160

awolff280sl

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, FL, Sarasota
  • Posts: 610
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2009, 23:09:04 »
I also did not get much information on differential backlash, so I concentrated on differential drag for which there is a spec of 22-26 in/lbs when new. Increasing the differential drag should result in reducing the backlash.
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo

erickmarciano

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • Canada, Quebec, montreal
  • Posts: 544
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 01:02:03 »
foud this article on one of the posts . did anyone try this procedure?
http://www.bernardembden.com/xjs/diff/index.htm
would the tool from a w123 work for the pinion nut on our w113?
thanks
1994 E500 W124
1971 280sl
1989 Porsche 930 coupe
1988 e30 m3
2001 ducati mh900
2006 ps1000
1962 Vespa GS160

George Des

  • Guest
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 01:15:50 »
The backlash is adjusted by the use of shims on the 230/250/280SL axles. The shims are on the pinion and on the left axle tube under the bearings. I just completed an axle rebuild where I changed out all the bearings and the crush sleeve. I re-used the same shims and the same ring and pinion gears. Following some info provided by Jim Villers, I was able to determine that I had backlash identified by a slight "gap" before the gears catch. I think the backlash really only becomes an issue when the gears are replaced. Also determined during my info exchanges with Jim that the 190Sl rear axle actually has a slotted adjustment ring on both axle tubes that do allow a backlash adjustment w/o the use of the shims. Hope this helps.

George Des

awolff280sl

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, FL, Sarasota
  • Posts: 610
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 01:16:29 »
I did this procedure and it cured my diff whine problem. I used a dial guage to measure diff drag before and after tightening the pinion nut.
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo

erickmarciano

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • Canada, Quebec, montreal
  • Posts: 544
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2009, 01:30:26 »
thanks George and Andy.

Andy  can you discride waht is Diff drag ?I have read many post on this and still don't understand.
in the procedure does he remove the clunk ?is the diff drag the amount of force we need to use for the clunk to happen or to turn the diff?
and what was to point in the dial telling you the before or after mesurement . did you know how much more to tighten the nut.
what tool did you use for the nut and what type of dial guage did you use.

sorry for all the questions,\
thanks
1994 E500 W124
1971 280sl
1989 Porsche 930 coupe
1988 e30 m3
2001 ducati mh900
2006 ps1000
1962 Vespa GS160

awolff280sl

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, FL, Sarasota
  • Posts: 610
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2009, 13:24:27 »
Diff drag is the amount of torque that it takes to turn the differential pinion gear. With the diff and rear axle fully assembled and on the car, it is measured with the axles as level as possible and no resistance by brakes on the rotors. The manual gives a spec of 22-26 in/lbs on a new rear axles assembly. To get the axles level, jack stands are placed under the axle tubes as close to the wheels as possible and weight is placed in the trunk to overcome the compensation spring. The driveshaft is then removed from the diff yoke and moved out of the way. To accurately measure the diff drag I used an in/lb dial guage that I found online. It is basically a type of torque wrench that shows you on a dial the amount of torque being applied, rather than a standard torque wrench that clicks or "breaks" when the specified torque is reached. Several companies make them, some are very expensive. I attached the dial guage to the pin wrench socket that is supposed to fit the diff pinion nut for our cars. This pin socket is the M0030 from SIr Tools, but I still had to modify it because the pins were too long and did not allow the socket to fully seat itself completely. My rebuilt 3.27 with a new pinion seal but original bearings measured about 12 in/lbs.
and I had a distinct whine with this setting.
I then used the procedure outlined at that website: http://www.bernardembden.com/xjs/diff/index.htm
I also used my dial guage to measure what I was doing, but my goal was not to achieve factory spec. I only used the guage to see if I was really increasing my diff drag with a 1/8" turn of the nut. My plan was to make a 1/8" turn of the pinion nut, put everything back together and drive the car and see if the whine was gone. If it wasn't, I would have to do it all again and then drive it again. Fortunately, the whine disappeared with just one 1/8'' tightening of the nut. This is the safest way to go because you do not want to overtighten the nut. As it turned out, the diff drag ended up at 16 in/lbs: still under factory spec, but this is not unexpected for a used differential. My purpose was to get rid of the whine and not necessarily to acheive factory spec. I'm sure that if I tried to get to factory spec that I would have overtightened it.
Tightening the pinion nut with the yoke fixed is very difficult. It takes tremenous force and the pin socket wants to slip off the nut. I was able to do this by holding the wrench-socket onto the nut with a C-clamp hooked on the back of the diff, and a used a bottle jack to turn the wrench handle in small increments.
I do not know what your "clunk" is. My diff did not have this. I think that you are assuming that the clunk is a result of too much backlash. In other words, there is too much play of each pinion tooth between two crown teeth. However, the clunk may be the result of something else, maybe a bad bearing?
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo

ja17

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Blacklick
  • Posts: 7410
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2009, 23:06:40 »
Hello,

Often times the clunk is the result of a worn pin hole in the casting (yoke) holding the spider gears. This is a common problem with the high torque V-8 engined W108 rear diffs. Unfortunately the fix is a removal and complete tear down.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

awolff280sl

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, FL, Sarasota
  • Posts: 610
Re: diff backlash adjustment
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 23:27:56 »
Also, from what I've been told, this type of wear in the casting that causes a "clunk" can sometimes be seen over time in 113 automatics that are "pounded" into reverse.
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo