Author Topic: car wouldn't stop after key turned off (Read 12932 times)

bcjm · « **on:** August 26, 2005, 15:01:35 »

This happened to me yesterday. It was the first time. The engine continue ran after I turned the ignition switch off. I went out, looked around, shut the door then the engine stopped. Tried again a few time. Everything was normal. Ignition switch?

Raymond · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2005, 15:14:17 »

Could very well be the switch. Say it was hung up, and the connection was maintained, then when you slammed the door, it was just enough of a bump to disengage. Might not happen again for a long time, might be tomorrow. When it does, try a rap to the dash under the key. If that shuts it off, it would be time to address the switch.

Did you remove the key when this happened?

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

A Dalton · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2005, 15:24:14 »

Which chassis ?? Do you have brake fluid warning lamp ?

ja17 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2005, 16:27:53 »

Hello bcjm,
Add brake fluid to solve the problem. A factory mistake. Power feeds back through the low fluid, door ajar circuit to the ignition and the car's ignition stays on!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

A Dalton · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2005, 17:33:56 »

Wow, didn't need to wait a reply....

anyway, fluid topping will temporarily curtail your problem, but the correct remedy is a circuit modification of putting a diode in between the level sensor and the kombi lamp, pos. polarity facing the lamp.
This will get you the intended feature of fluid level and door ajar warnings without fear of circuits 54 and 30 connecting under low fluid/door open condition.

JimVillers · « **Reply #5 on:** August 26, 2005, 18:48:17 »

This reminds me of an email floating around about a lady who was informed that her headlights were low on fluid and that she could choose to add "standard" headlight fluid or "halogen" fluid at a premium price. (I can email you the entire funny piece; send me an email if you want to hear the conversation in its entirety).

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

jaxxonia · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2005, 20:36:29 »

Same thing happened to my 1970 280SL auto about 3 months ago.
I turned off the ignition, pulled out the key, and the engine continued to run for about 15 seconds before extinguishing itself. This was accompanied by a high pitched tone that was never part of the equation before. I tried starting her again, this time with no problem, it started as usual. Expecting the worst (ignition or starter problem)I spoke with my mechanic/guru who specializes mostly in SL's pre-1972 and owns 2 113's himself. It baffled him, too. His response was "Something, probably related to the ignition, maybe about to give up. Don't take any long trips and just wait for it to happen again. Intermittant problems are difficult to diagnose." So here we are 3 months later and it has never happened again. The car is running very well. Rene, my mechanic, feels it may have been a one-time occurance having to do with the point at which the ignition stopped its travel. I wish I could give you a more technical explanation, but that's why I have Rene. I know my mechanical limitations. May it never happen to your 113 again.

bcjm · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2005, 07:37:22 »

Wow I can't believe it is related to the brake fluid level! My car is a 1971. I am working on my front suspension so my brake calipers are out and brake fluid reservor was empty. I started the engine while standing on the side trying to check the charging system. My brake warning light was on. The engine wouldn't stop until I close the door. Now everything makes sense!

Chad · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2005, 21:33:01 »

I was about to say that this problem sounds like my W123 turbo diesel wagon. A vacuum leak at the door locks caused the vacuum stop diaphragm mechanism to not work and the engine wouldn;t shut off. The diesel Mercedes make absurd use of vacuum for various systems. Didn't know this could happen with the W113 chassis, especially if the brake fluid is low. This seems like a useful and redundant warning device for brake fluid level?!

-CD-
1967 230SL, 113.042 10
1983 300TDT, WDBAB 93A7DN

A Dalton · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2005, 10:14:46 »

>>
This seems like a useful and redundant warning device for brake fluid level?! >>

A Benz mistake ....early 113 did not have brake warning lamp, but when they added this feature, they did not consider the possibility of the ignition shunt circuit that would be caused with both fluid low/door open condition...
Surprising they overlooked this simple circuit fault, but they did...

bcjm · « **Reply #10 on:** August 28, 2005, 21:06:40 »

I reproduced with the door open and low brake fluid level. Engine stopped once I closed the door.

Is this documented anywhere? How did you guys know about this?

n/a · « **Reply #11 on:** August 28, 2005, 21:32:03 »

Simple, experience. Or...been there, done that.
Cheers,
Don

quote:
Originally posted by bcjm

I reproduced with the door open and low brake fluid level. Engine stopped once I closed the door.

Is this documented anywhere? How did you guys know about this?

A Dalton · « **Reply #12 on:** August 28, 2005, 22:45:48 »

<<How did you guys know about this?>>

As 113 owners , it just comes with the
Territory... part of the job...

erickmarciano · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:46:23 »

had the same problem happen to me this week when replacing my rear axle bearings . does anyone know whitch wire to put the diod on?and the silver stripe on the diod should face where?

thanks

2004 Volvo V70-R
1971 280sl
1962 VW bug
1971 Harley FLH
1962 gs160 vespa

mbzse · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:46:14 »

quote:
Originally posted by bcjm

I reproduced with the door open and low brake fluid level. Engine stopped once I closed the door.
Is this documented anywhere? How did you guys know about this?

Well, this was documented by us enthusiasts on the web some 10 years ago, one useful site is the Veteran M-B pages (A.Gabard), see
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/nitwit/
Some great info there is the Dealer code listing under "Technical support" section

Anyway, I enclose the text for your benefit
/hans

What's the Deal on the Brake Warning/ Door Ajar Light?
By Ola Kristofersson
When you open the door on a W113-type car, the red brake warning light in the central kombi instrument cluster comes on. This is to signify that the electrical brake warning system is working OK. So why is the red brake light associated with opening the door?

Legislation demanded brake fluid low and door ajar warnings. There was only one light position left on the kombi instrument, so they decided to use the same light for both functions.

First, a description of this W113 feature:
All Mercedes cars are designed so that when the key is switched to "on", the wiring section No 54 in electrical system is in use. Section No 30 is straight from 12V+ on battery. A primary rule is that section No 30 and No 54 are never to be connected, as this bypasses the ignition key and empties the battery.

The 113 is designed so that:
The courtesy light below the dash is connected to No 30. Light is (may be) lit as door is opened. Brake fluid warning is connected to 54 (Light is on when car is running and level is low). Now, the M-B designers wanted to find a way to check that the warning light bulb was OK. And, they did that by using the courtesy light door switch. This also resulted in a "door ajar" warning function.

This design carries with it an unfortunate effect: If the brake fluid level is low, and the door is opened, 30 and 54 will be connected. Means ignition will go on, and the fuel feed pump will start up. Fuel can be squirted around if one is performing work on the fuel system in the car. A wise thing to do is to disconnect the battery before starting any maintenance work on the fuel system.

Now, a remedy:
By simply fitting a diode in the circuit between the fluid level sender and this red light bulb in the combi instrument. A Si diode, 1A with the (+) side facing the bulb will do fine, and it may be easily hidden in the wiring harness of the car.

.

/Hans in Sweden

erickmarciano · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2007, 10:59:41 »

can anyone give me a wire color?
thanks

2004 Volvo V70-R
1971 280sl
1962 VW bug
1971 Harley FLH
1962 gs160 vespa

Saltydog · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2007, 03:00:09 »

Hi All,
I have read extensively on this and on Spark plugs and Leaded versus unleaded. I have a 1970 SL 280 which I have just purchased. When I run it for a period (30 mins) and switch off the ignition key (leaving it in and not opening the door, the engine continues to turn over and sometimes reignites. This suggests that fuel is still being fed to the pistons and the sparks (new offical MB parts) are still igniting.

There are three problems I think:
1 The sparks are glowing and igniting
2 The unleaded petrol is burning too efficiently so add lead
3 Something I don't know about or none of the above

Anyone have any ideas? I would appreciate the advice with my W113 honeymoon.

SaltyDog

glennard · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2007, 15:34:17 »

Ah, Just think what the MB W113 wiring diagram would look like with 'diodes' in the 1962 electrical design?

??

hands_aus · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2007, 07:20:23 »

quote:
Originally posted by Saltydog

Hi All,
I have read extensively on this and on Spark plugs and Leaded versus unleaded. I have a 1970 SL 280 which I have just purchased. When I run it for a period (30 mins) and switch off the ignition key (leaving it in and not opening the door, the engine continues to turn over and sometimes reignites. This suggests that fuel is still being fed to the pistons and the sparks (new offical MB parts) are still igniting.

There are three problems I think:
1 The sparks are glowing and igniting
2 The unleaded petrol is burning too efficiently so add lead
3 Something I don't know about or none of the above

Anyone have any ideas? I would appreciate the advice with my W113 honeymoon.

SaltyDog

If it is pre-ignition then you could check the points. They are probably worn and need replacing.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

duboy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:53:39 »

my '68 280SL does this once in a while..however instead of continuing to run...when i shut the ignition off, the engine sort of stumbles to a halt, instead of turning off. It has only done it twice in about a year...and i don't get any warning lights about brake fluid (actually it's full anyway). i'm going to search around more as it just happened last weekend for the second time and it alarms me.

- 1968 280SL -- 1998 SVT Contour -- 1989 M3 -- 1978 Austin Mini -

Saltydog · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2007, 03:17:56 »

HI BCJM,
your problem is common as is related to low brake fluid and a quirk in the MB wiring. the open door warning light and low brake fluid warning light are the same. For some reason better explained by others it keeps the engine firing. Shutting the door resolved the situation. Topping up the brake fluid resolves it as I am given to understand. My splutting engine post ignition termination is an unrelated and unresolved problem.

quote:
Originally posted by bcjm

This happened to me yesterday. It was the first time. The engine continue ran after I turned the ignition switch off. I went out, looked around, shut the door then the engine stopped. Tried again a few time. Everything was normal. Ignition switch?

SaltyDog

News:

Author Topic: car wouldn't stop after key turned off (Read 12932 times)

bcjm

A Dalton

A Dalton

bcjm

Chad

A Dalton

bcjm

n/a

A Dalton

Saltydog

glennard

duboy

Saltydog