Author Topic: Newbie w/questions  (Read 6986 times)

n/a

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Newbie w/questions
« on: September 10, 2003, 14:36:47 »
First off, Hi! This forum and its posting members have been a tremendous help (as others have also posted) in my quest for the "right" Pagoda. :?:

Having lurked here unregistered for most of the Spring and Summer, I was no longer able to hold back my enthusiasm for the sake of gaining more wisdom, and have now purchased a `68 280sl... I travel tomorrow to retrieve it. At some point soon I'll post some pics/details, and will no doubt ask your comments. :D

By way of introduction, the link below will take you to a site that nicely hosts the photo albums of my last three passions/projects. It's easy to navigate, so take a look if curious.

http://groups.msn.com/HobbyPics/pictures


My first question, however, stems from personal confusion over all the many pics I've seen of headlights and tail lights. I've seen both the solid red as well as the red/orange TL's on nearly all year 280's... I assume this has to do with replacement availabiluty??? What was standard US dress for a 68 280SL?

Similarly with the HL's, I've seen the lower signal portion with the darker orange "lens" as well a lighter almost clear "lens" regardless of year... and I dont mean the Euro HL's. What was standard for the 68 280?

Again, thanks for a vibrant and helpful resource. I look forward to contributing and participating. :)



Nervious Newbie `68 280sl

Cees Klumper

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Re: Newbie w/questions
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2003, 15:08:52 »
Hello Brian - Information from the Technical Articles on the site and other old info off Yahoo!:
"Starting with production of the 230SL in 1963 to the 280SL in 1969 the solid one-piece bezel & red lens unit. According to Laurence Meredith (Orginal Mercedes SL Restorers Guide see Page #68) Amber indicator lenses replaced red ones for all markets in February 1969.

Frank Mallory, a noted Mercedes Benz expert, states that the change took place in 1970. There were three different types of 230 SL taillights. The regular ones were all-red with clear back-up lenses. The French ones have orange (amber) back-up lights instead of clear ones. The Italian (and possibly for Australia) have clear back-up lights like the original ones but orange (amber) turnsignal lights. You can find all three different types on eBay from time to time."

As for the headlights: (old info off Yahoo!) "US 113 cars had amber & white vs. pure amber running light in the headlight. The small amber has the code AN while the large amber has the code AJ. There are differences in the lights so they are only interchangable with some work, and only in pairs. They all fit the same however.

I believe that the AC lights are the earliest, used on 230/250/280 to chassis number 5607, which was early in '69 production year. The AN lights were used on 280's from chassis 5607 to 11947, and the AJ for the remainder of the production run. I have not had all three in my possession at one time, but the differences between all of them have to do with the number of bulbs; colors; and wattages for the parking/directionals with the sealed beam headlight being the same for all.

The biggest difference is in the AJ which contains an additional power "jack" to connect the side marker lamps which had changed from side marker reflectors and now needed power due to DOT regulations. All assemblies are still available; however they have vastly different prices. The AC is about $285; the AN about $340; and the AJ about $220. Go figure.

My new AJ's were made in the Czech Republic and were ALL plastic, including the chrome. NOT NOS! More important is the socket-back which contains the reflectors and the wiring for the directionals and parking lamps; the only one still available is the one for the AJ. Note this is not included in the above prices and is a separate part.

When I needed new headlamp assemblies, I opted for the AJ because of price, but more because my socket backs were shot (no chrome left on
the reflectors) and could not get any new ones for my original AN assemblies. Socket backs are definitely NOT interchangable. So if you have AJ's, I'd suggest only replacing them with AJ's else you need to do a bunch of wiring to accomodate your side markers and you'll have to do something about those socket backs."

So on your car, solid red tail lights appear to be appropriate/original. Personally I like the euro headlights and the orange rear lights on my 1969 280 SL. But many people really favor the solid red tail lights (NLA other than in -expensive- reproduction).
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

n/a

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Re: Newbie w/questions
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2003, 15:51:48 »
Thank you, Cees, for the thurough reply.

My solid red TL's are therefore appropriate. The P.O. must have replaced the original AN's appropriate to my 6048 chassie number with the lesser expensive AJ's.

I, too, prefer the red/amber combo, and will one day add them... along with a pair of the beautiful Euro headlights. :D

Thanks again for education.


Nervious Newbie `68 280sl

Download Attachment: Green 280 grill.jpg
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« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 15:54:29 by n/a »

Albert-230SL

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Re: Newbie w/questions
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2003, 04:34:44 »
Hi Brian,

According to the W113 Spare parts list, all 230 SL and 250 SL, and all 280 SL up to chassis #007937 came with the early style of tail lights:



And all 280 SL from chassis #007938 came with the later style:



As Cees commented, the early style are more difficult and expensive to find than the second type... I bought a pair of red/red early style tail lights -like in the first photo- for my 230 SL in April... and (as a good price) I paid 630 euros for both! (around 705 US Dollars)

Hope it helps. Regards,

Download Attachment: Early_tail_lights.jpg
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Download Attachment: Later_tail_light.jpg
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Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

n/a

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Re: Newbie w/questions
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2003, 07:34:04 »
Thanks, Albert.  A picture is worth a thousand words... in your case, two thousand words.


Nervious Newbie `68 280sl

114015

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Re: Newbie w/questions
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2003, 13:00:45 »
Hello tail-light connoisseurs,

If I may leave my two cents here ... ;)

One of the most important reasons to buy a pagoda are these stunningly beautiful all-red taillights. I think those have been the most beautiful taillights in car design. :D

Some people dislike the all-red taillights not only because they are very expensive but also because the turn-signal light illuminates in red. This may be confusing with other traffic participants who might believe there is a loose or incorrect electrical contact with your brake lights. In the States it shouldn't be a problem because lots of new US-cars still have red turnsignal lights. But in Europe this can be the case. Furhtermore, the old-style red-taillights had only 18 W bulbs for the turn-signal and brake light which is significantly darker than the modern 21 W bulbs.
Worst of all is the rear red light which is only 4 W. You can exchange all these bulbs with the larger ones, for instance 5 W halogen.

Furthermore, for red signal-light haters, the all red-taillights were also available with amber (orange) turn-signals like Cees and Albert mentioned. Those look like the all-red-ones but have an amber turn-signal. Those were for Australia and Italy (and Spain, maybe).
You can sometimes find them on faires and on ebay if you keep looking. Those are most cheaper than the all-red ones and much nicer than the late-style 280 taillights.

Just my two cents ... :)


Achim
(Magdeburg, Germany)
Achim
(Germany)

Bob G ✝︎

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Re: Newbie w/questions
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2003, 15:33:17 »
I am glad some one other than my self pointed out that there are tree different kinds of rear taillights for the early 230SL to 250SL. I came accross a 230SL that had the European amber cap one peice bezel & lens lights and thought they looked great. But when I went to check on the part number I could not fine any information.
Will these units except the early blub sockets backing plates ? and are these still availible some where through a Mercedes-Benz dealer.
I have the orgianl red taillights for my car with a new reproduction set and sapares. It would be nice to have a very rare set of Amber cap lenses that are European.
Bob Geco
1968 280SL

Albert-230SL

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Re: Newbie w/questions
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2003, 03:12:16 »
Hi Bob,

As mentioned before, the early style of tail lights (the photo just shows the shape) were available in 3 ways, depending on the country: all red (like the photo, for most of the countries), red with amber turn-signal (for Australia and Italy), and all red with amber back-up light (for France). I personally prefer the all red ones, but as always, it's a matter of personal taste.

The current W113 Spare parts list shows "No more available" for the 230 SL tail lights, and shows part numbers 113 820 1564 (left) and 113 820 1664 (right) for 250 SL and 280 SL up to chassis #007937. (Price in Germany around 300 euros each). We could suppose they are early style of tail lights with amber turn-signal...

I checked those part numbers in the 230 SL vintage spare parts list, and they don't match with the vintage part numbers, so I'm not sure if MB is really selling now the early type or the later type (as a replacement part). Maybe someone with a 280 SL Spare parts list could inform us if those numbers 113 820 1564 and 113 820 1664 are from a later type of tail lights.

Regards,

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
« Last Edit: September 16, 2003, 00:43:03 by Albert-230SL »