Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: joelj on February 10, 2011, 22:59:58
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Hi Group,
Are any of your looking for the hard to find book made by Mercedes benz - Faszination w113. a 100 page book on our beloved pagoda. This is the one they released for the 40th anniversary of the w113. Its now availabe through Mercedes benz USA
http://accessories.mbusa.com/Classic+Collection/literature/FASZINATION+SL230+250+280+W113+BOOK.axd
There are 24 books left.... oops make that 22 i just got 2 books. :D
Cheers
Joel
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21
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20!
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19
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18
Danny
1970 280SL silver Euro 4-speed
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17
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the counter is down to 8 left :o
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In addition to the DCX version (for those that might have forgotten, DCX=DaimlerChrysler) which is what I have, with a silver cover, and published by DaimlerChrysler, there appears to be another version out: same title, different cover, by Motor Buch Verlag in Germany. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faszination-SL-230-280-113-1963-1971/dp/3613028697
The Amazon.UK link lists as unavailable, but there were some German book sellers that had it. Get out your Berlitz and have at it!
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Just FYI, the Classic center has them available .
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HI Cynewan,
The classic center has the other version as posted by michael available? How much are they. It would be nice to have both versions as part of the collection. I believe its exactly the same book inside just a different cover.
Thanks
Joel
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All Gone. Scored the last two.
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Haha, I thought this might happen, so when they first came out I bought 5 or 10 of them. Now in what moving box did I put them?! ???
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I've owned it for a few years now. Didn't realize it was a rarity!
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My copy of the book arrived today. It's pretty impressive, with a lot of information and beautiful photos, and the English translation of the German is excellent and very smooth (if perhaps to a fault sometimes).
The book's account of the origins of the Pagoda roof is quite interesting. Karl Wilfert, the director of Vehicle Design and Advanced Development as well as Passenger Car Styling, always explained that the higher roof edges would allow larger side windows and provide easier entry and exit, and this is commonly believed. But this was specious -- after all, once the window dimensions are fixed, it makes no difference whether the roof is a bit higher or lower in the middle. The real purpose was to serve as an eye-catcher, to attract attention. And that part of the design didn't come from Paul Bracq, who actually opposed it on technical grounds and regarded it as no more than fashionable gimmickry, as did H. U. Wieselmann, chief editor of "Auto, Motor, und Sport", and the automotive journalist Reinhard Seiffert. When Wilfert showed the design to the young engineer Erich Waxenberger, his reaction was "Yes, Mr. Wilfert, it looks just as if a tree had fallen on it". Of course, the design was a styling success (although never copied). The book doesn't say why the hard top has more aerodynamic drag than the soft top, but I doubt that was caused by the lowered center.
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Hmm...my book, which I've had for some time, says nothing of the sort about Paul Bracq suggesting the Pagoda top was fashionable gimmickry, though it very well may be. It does say, however, he was the third father of the Pagoda roof. Of course! He's listed on the patent as the co-inventor! Not Geiger; not Wilfert. Barenyi and Bracq.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=w6xGAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=U.S.+Patent+3169793&source=bl&ots=YaykZIMFgC&sig=H8-SJcLMZI7eukbz7Gm6UA-sMAA&hl=en&ei=AJ5dTfGSJIytgQf5msSjDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEAQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false
I don't make this stuff up.
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... The book's account of the origins of the Pagoda roof is quite interesting. ... The real purpose was to serve as an eye-catcher, to attract attention. ...
Is that so?
The first drawing for the roof was made by Barenyi and used for the patent application in 1956.
See: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=9948.msg65661, reply #6.
He even included instructions on how to dimple it! ;D
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I was basing my account on this passage in the book at the bottom of page 17:
“Others however were quick to criticize the shape of the hardtop on technical grounds and regarded it as no more than fashionable gimmickry. This school of thought included numerous technical experts like the later Development Chief Professor Dr. h. c. Dr. Ing. Hans Scherenberg, the respected motoring journalist Reinhard Seiffert and the designer Paul Bracq himself. They were right, of course”. [My previous post erroneously included H. U. Wieselmann in this list – sorry for the slip]
A passage at the top of the page seems to contradict this, and does say that Bracq was the third father of the pagoda roof. However, I’ve been assuming that the German version came first, and that the English is a translation. If so, I think the translation here may be misleading. Here’s the German:
“Ästhetische Aspekte des Designs standen bei Bela Barenyi nicht im Vordergrund seines Schaffens. Aber Karl Wilfert, auch im Designbereich immer auf der Suche nach neuen Ideen, gefiel die Idee des nach innen gewölbten Daches.
Der Dritte im Bunde, der nun auf den Plan trat, war Paul Bracq. Als Leiter des Advanced Designs bei Friedrich Geiger bildete der kreative junge Franzose mit dem strengen schwäbischen Konstrukteur und ein sich ideal ergänzendes Duo. Paul Bracq hatten den 230 SL gezeichnet und musste nun dem Dach den formalen Pfiff geben, damit das Hardtop auch mit dem Korpus des übrigen Autos harmonierte und eine formale Einheit bilden konnte.”
Here’s my translation, which is more literal than the one in the book:
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“Aesthetic aspects of the design were not in the forefront of the work of Bela Barenyi. But Karl Wilfert, always looking for new design ideas, liked the idea of the roof with a dip in the middle.
The third member of the group, who now joined the project, was Paul Bracq. As the leader of Advanced Design under Friedrich Geiger, the creative young Frenchman and the strict Swabian design engineer formed an ideally complementary pair. Paul Bracq had designed the 230 SL and now had to give the roof the formal nod of approval, to ensure that the hardtop could harmonize with and form an integrated whole with the design of the rest of the car.”
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Note that it doesn’t say Bracq designed the roof, or even that he liked it – only that he had to approve the design. Once he did, for whatever reason, it was probably natural to put his name on the patent as the representative of Advanced Design. Clearly, this is pure speculation on my part, but the passage I initially quoted might give it some credence.
I certainly would like to know whether Paul Bracq was one of the designers of the hardtop, and whether he would have preferred a different design. So Michael, why not ask him when you two meet in the near future?
Chris Earnest
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Hello Chris,
that is a very nice translation indeed. The only change I would make is translating ".. formalen Pfiff geben". The German phrase "das hat Pfiff" can be translated as "this has flair" or "it has a kick to it", but it does not mean that he had to approve it. I believe that he was asked to add his knack for eye pleasing design to Barenyi's rather more functional creation. But as you wrote, that is something for Michael to explore.
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This is a cool thread... I like the detective work. We should perhaps add this to the Tech Manual, original correctness section (to be produced?)
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Hello Chris,
that is a very nice translation indeed. The only change I would make is translating ".. formalen Pfiff geben". The German phrase "das hat Pfiff" can be translated as "this has flair" or "it has a kick to it", but it does not mean that he had to approve it. I believe that he was asked to add his knack for eye pleasing design to Barenyi's rather more functional creation. But as you wrote, that is something for Michael to explore.
Thanks for the correction -- I should have caught that myself.
So that would explain why Bracq's name is on the patent -- he did contribute to the design. But from the other quote, it still seems that he might have preferred a different design for the hardtop. Perhaps he lost an internal corporate battle with Wilfert?
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Paul Bracq did renderings of the Pagoda, without the Pagoda roof. See below. Errr, notice the artist's signature and date; also note the gangsta whitewalls, you Europeans who seem to abhor them! ;) The date is April 6, 1960. Also note the knockoff wheels.
Bela Barenyi, prior to the Pagoda roof patent, holds/held a German patent #822782 (8-July-1949; issued 29-November-1951) for a removable hard top. You can ferret this out at the European patent office.
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you fools- I will keep my copy in concours condition and not remove the factory plastic- A true purist would never have opened the book- it will add points that you can never recover!
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you fools- I will keep my copy in concours condition and not remove the factory plastic- A true purist would never have opened the book- it will add points that you can never recover!
Better left unopened, then you won't see the wholly incorrect firewall pad in the engine shot.
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Best to buy the book on (Bela Benyari Father of Passive Safety. Also another book due out later 2011 by my friend in England Brain Long Pagoda W113 . I am trying to get tom at the classic center to pre order some of these book plus the one now available on the R107 350SL to 560SL.
Warm Regards
Bob Geco
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HI Bob,
When the book comes out can you let the group know.
Many thanks
Joel
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Regarding Brian Long's book, it can be pre-ordered from Amazon.com. Current release date is for late July.
Norm