Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: SammyB on December 21, 2011, 14:59:53
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Hi guys, as some one who is seriously considering purchasing a Pagoda sl. I wanted to ask, if you guys have ever felt a bit worried about taking your cars out on a long trip, say 400 mile round trip, I'm from the UK so treble that for USA :) The reason why I am asking is I have owned 2 cars in the past, a Ferrari 328, and a Maserati 3200 GT, which gave me such concerns or fear. To be fair the Ferrari never once had any issues, and the Maserati only once had a slight problem. This was not anything major only a leaking A/c hose, however this still caused huge panic attacks on my end at the thought of the catastrophic engine failures that must be occurring, reducing me to a quivering wreck, which is not particularly a good thing when your out trying to impress a girl :D I have had many normal euro boxes where you just jump in without a second thought, but wheres the fun in that, thus I find myself hankering for something a bit special, even if it means having palpitations every time I hear a slightly unusual noise coming from anywhere near the engine bay! As I would plan on using this as a daily driver, what do you think? :)
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As someone who has been driving my 230SL for 30 plus years, I can tell you it depends. There is always the chance that an unforeseen problem can occur (did I hear a collective no duh?) This problem could occur on a 1/2 mile journey to the post office or a 400 mile trip to wherever... the trick is to eliminate the possibilities by keeping the car well-serviced and maintained AND getting to know how things work on the car. Many debilitating issues can be sorted out on the fly with some knowledge (i.e. an electrical issue or a faulty set of points).... Once you reach a point where you know the car is responding the way it should -- and you will know when you drive it often enough -- you'll be ready for any length of journey. These cars are well-designed and can handle 400 miles without a hitch (so to speak...) Good luck!
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They're old cars, obviously your chances of a problem are greater. For an enthusiast, the threat of a breakdown is part of the thrill. Make sure you have tow insurance and the number handy.
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Did 2000 miles in mine over 6 days in the summer down to Rome and back and didn't even open the bonnet.
Perhaps I got lucky but it's not the first time I've done it. Perhaps I trust the mechanic and accept that it could break down - as could any car...
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I travelled to the NE concours a few years back (NYC to VT) the trip up was spectular- the return not so , about 40 miles into my 238 mile return trip the alternator light came on then the temp gauge started to raise as it was summer and the traffic ecscalated. As it was a sunday night I really needed to get home the likley hood of getting a tow to a reliable place was going to be low even on the east coast at that hour of the day. additionally I was scheduled to work in the morning and could ill afford a delay. The alternator light wasn't an issue but the temp was. Whenever traffic slowed I needed to neutral and race the engine etc. It was nerve racking and not to be repeated. (Breaking down on a NYC bridge will get you a push not a flatbed- not something my rechromed rear bumpers needed!)
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I drove the 69 280sl from Toronto to the pier at Santa Monica California and back with only a new set plugs at the Classic Center in Irvine California and a set of faulty brake pads replaced. I always ensure that the car is tuned up, fresh fluids, electronic ignition, new belts and a good alternator,radiator and battery, plus good tires.
Crossing the Mojave desert at speed at midday, the temp needle stayed at 90 F. Other than that they are reliable and can go anywhere.
Doug Dees ;)
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Drove to the Alsace Region a couple of years ago, over the 3 days we clocked 1500 miles or so and it was a breeze :)
I suggest you don't get one as there are enough on the roads in the UK! ;)
The Pagoda LOVES long journeys, she tends to glide as if on air, providing you can get your hands on a well looked after one.
The new Skoda looks pleasing as a babe magnet! ;D ( Only kidding ) ;)
Good Luck.
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...which is not particularly a good thing when your out trying to impress a girl :D
This reminds me of my own tale of whoa... followed by one of woe...
Back in the early 90s I took my future bride-to-be on one of our first dates. We took the Pagoda -- and between the wine tasting, the scenery of the Santa Ynez Valley, and the groovy car, we had a very memorable time ;)
Then a couple months later, we took another drive, this time down the Ventura Freeway from Santa Barbara. Well, on the way home, the car stalled on the on-ramp and would not start. This of course was the pre-SL113 days, and I was useless. AAA came to the rescue and we spent the remainder of the drive in a tow truck!
Luckily, by then she was already hooked! :D
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... Luckily, by then she was already hooked! :D
You mean to the tow truck? :o ::)
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I've been driving my 230SL since 1976. When I first got it, it was pretty much my primary car until 1987 so it saw plenty of use. When I was stationed in Europe in the early 80s, I drove it regularly between Germany and Italy at autostrada and autobahn speeds without it breaking a sweat. Never had any sort of breakdown with it. On this side of the pond, I made more than a few trips between Washington, D.C. and Boston and New York and Boston. Again, all without any kind of breakdowns or problems. As I have gotten older though, I have gotten too used to the comfort and convenience of my 2006 E500 or my wife's Lexus GX 460 that have all the whistles and bells to take the 230SL on anything longer than a 50-100 mile jaunt anymore. This is more for my own physical benefit than out of any concern for the car being able to "handle it"! These cars are built for highway driving and like others said, if they have been properly maintained--"they can handle it".
George Des
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Guys,
all the stories are great but the question still concerns the "fear factor." When I was a wee lad my father took the family out on Sunday drives in whatever old jalopy would drive away from the shop. Those were all made in Detroit or South Bend, Indiana. We spent many afternoons on some dusty roadside in the Niagara Peninsula waiting for one of Pop's buddies to come rescue us. From this I grew up with an irrational fear of breaking down in a nowhere zone.
So how to deal with the fears? No trip is 100% guaranteed, of course. Long story short, nowadays what makes me feel better is knowing that my daily driver (an Acura RSX) is the product of much better engineering than those North American Klapperkistes from the early 1960s. That, and cell phone service. That, and the auto club extended towing option. As for my Pagoda, I am looking forward to road trips next spring. The engine has just been rebuilt, so that should let me start off with some confidence.
BTW, tonight is the Solstice so best wishes to all you pagans who read this before the thread is stale.
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A good Pagoda is emminently reliable and there shoul be absolutely no greater fear when embarking on a long journey than with any other car. (except perhaps with a 203 built between 2000 to 2005!)
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Sammy:
My first MB classic was a Havana Brown 1971 280 SL. It was not in the best shape when I bought it and I never did any serious work to the car. The previous owner had it for only 6 months...the previous previous owner was the original purchaser who let the car slowly decay for about 30 years.
I loved the car but never really never trusted it for a long road trip. The longest trip in that car was probably to Tom Sargeant's annual outing, about 250 miles each way...and that was with another car escorting me all the way. Most trips were limited to about 50 miles each way.
A few years ago, I moved along to my current Pagoda, a 1970 Tunis Beige Euro car. It was, and is, in far better condition than the Havana car, mechanically and in the body and interior. The self-imposed distance limit stayed with me for the first few years until I had a Top-End job done on Ole Beige where I could see the pistons, the valves, and most of the other essential parts of the engine. The engine was cleaned up, some parts replaced, adjustments made and set to good working order.
This experience gave me the confidence to take a long trip. I drove from New York to Ohio for the PUB University event, a round trip distance of over a 1,000 miles.
I had the top down, the wind in my hair (nearly wore a white scarf to ripple in the wind) and just enjoyed every moment of it. Not a bit of trouble except for using a bit more oil than normal.
After I had that trip under my belt, there was no stopping me. A few weeks later, I drove to Covered Bridge country in Pennsylvania, a 300 mile round trip...then on to Tom's place again for a 500 mile roundtripper.
I have completely conquered my long trip fear...my new attitude is based on faith...faith that the car will be OK. If you believe that your car is in good shape and you have an expert agree with you, you are ready to hit the road.
These cars are very strong and made to drive. I do carry emergency tow cards and cell phone numbers of Pagoda friends but so far it's been just me and Ole Beige enjoying the road.
Richard M, NYC
P.S. I know the owner of a restored 280SL who will not drive more than 25 miles...not sure if it's a lack of confidence or if he wants to preserve the beauty of his car. I have encouraged him to take a real drive but he has resisted so far. I think he's missing out on the greatest pleasure of owning one of these cars...the feeling of the road under the wheels.
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One aspect that does increase the "fear factor" for me is the prospect of leaving the car unattended should a problem occur. If you walk away from a modern, average car to get help, or perhaps leave it in a parking lot overnight until help arrives it is one thing. Leaving ours alone for any length of time does give me concern. So its not as much a matter of the car being unreliable as a certain segments of society being untrustworthy...
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I agree with James. It is always nice to pull the car in the driveway after a jaunt and have it safely tucked away in the garage. I guess I was pretty naive or just lucky but back when the car was new I never thought twice about where I parked it (other then to be careful about door dings). Since it was my every day driver, I drove it everywhere and never had a problem and this was in the LA area. As for trusting the car, even new, it has it's share of problems but never let me down to the point I couldn't make it home. Of the car's total miles, about 65K were put on in the first 8 years which included trips all over the western part of the US. Nowadays, our drives are always closer to home and for purely recreational enjoyment. Like John (thelews) said the cars are old, and in this case, the driver too:-) My hope is for many more days of driving pleasure in my SL and that is why my great mechanic, Ernie, always receives a nice Christmas Card:-)
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Please be aware these are 40 year old cars some still with 40 year old parts. Getting stuck far from home and away from resources that may be able to fix or at least get the proper parts is a bigger issue for me. I had a 2002 carrera and was driving in western jersey when i blew a rear tire- shredded is the term i'd use. That generation carrera came with a donut, I was able to limp home. The new car has only a can of goop. I would have been stranded in western jersey for two days waiting for tire rack to deliver the proper replacement before being able to come home as they would have nothing close to a 19 inch 305 out there to help me on a saturday night.
Another warning - we go to vermont weekends and a good friend went down to the garage to start his X5 and had nothing- starter was fried. BMW faltbedded it 50 miles to a dealership in New Hampshire on a saturday and had to wait until monday when it opened for it to be repaired. I was able to drive him back to NY but he would have to figure out how he was getting back to pick it up muidweek as service closed on weekends- That coninced me to get an explorer as those parts are mostly readily available.
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Yes you need to have the fear factor so that you will lay awake and remember to fix all the problems with the car. Don't fix things when you go to sell it- fix them now. Its called respect.
Having had old cars and motorcycles for ever I find the best way of making sure your vehicle is ready for a longer trip is to enter it into a slalom and/or rally (time speed distance rather than how much air can I get over that gravel road) with other car enthusiasts and have some real fun with your car in an environment where you won't get a ticket from the local mounties. This way you tax your mechanicals and are forced to pay attention to your cars needs in a real big way. If you say that your car won't survive a slalom or a 4 hour rally starting and stopping numerous times then keep your driving distances to the local Starbucks. I have driven long distances in old english and german cars and everytime I have arrived back home unscathed and I'm not anywhere near being a mechanic. The only time I had a problem was when I drove over some bouncing rocks and a rock broke some wires to my fuel pump but that was not the car's fault.
If you pay attention to your car and don't put off fixing even the little things you should be fine. 20 years ago the car I have now was used for at least two 2,300 km trips per year for 4 years. Never missed a beat. The reason the trips stopped was because the wood trim was a little warped so the owner took the dash apart to fix the wood and then broke the speaker cover and then broke the heater levers and then lost the radio and then the neighbour's cat died in the car and it was too stinky to put back together that fall and 20 years later the car is now mine.
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I fear the dead cat in the car... I had a mouse die in my 4.5 and the smell was bad...
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The fear factor is easily beaten - just get involved with your own maintenance and you develop confidence quickly - as the unknown is removed ;). When I bought the car I asked one of the local Classic Mercedes experts if I could be around when he serviced it. I got to get under the hoist, saw the belts, plugs; points, seals etc.... and I then took it out for an Italian tune-up, it would have been about 100k's on the freeway. I find the more I use the car the better it gets.
Today we have had a perfect 28 degree day with white puffy clouds and I have just returned - with the big boss - from doing a 310km round trip to visit a good friend for a Christmas drink - mostly on secondary roads, but she went perfectly (the Pagoda :D) and I never think to carry spares. Took a through the windscreen shot.
Having always had vintage cars must help, but I think the more you personally get involved the less 'fear factor'.
Richard
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Sammy,
You owned a Maserati and you're worried about the dependability of a Mercedes? ;D
I have done three round trips to the PUB. That's about 900 miles each way. The very first one was driven entirely solo by my lady BK. I was in California and rather than miss the gathering at Blacklick, she jumped in the car and took off. She did that with no more fear than any other road trip. Our car has cosmetic issues but is mechaniclly sound. I rebuilt the engine, the brakes, and I'm usually fooling with some component of the suspension. In short, these cars were built to run and run long. If you maintain them to high standards, you can expect safety and reliability. Cut corners on the maintenance of critical running components and you should live in fear over any car.
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I friend of mine drove his 57 300SL Roadster over 3,500 miles one way to the Gullwing Group meet in California a few years ago. Some of this was at speed in remote areas well over 100MPH.
Fear factor? What fear factor?
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I drove a 1955 190SL most of my younger years as my everyday car (back in the 70s). The car was nearly twenty years old at that time. I traveled back and fourth to college out of town for five years and made the trip twice a week in all kinds of weather. I traveled around 600 miles each week on the open highway. I cruised at 75 to 80 mph. I never was left stranded. I logged well over 200k miles on the car during these years.
I gained a high sense of confidence and trust in the "Three Pointed Star" during those years. The sounds from high RPM, German built, engines became music to my ears.
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Being someone who fixes things for a living I fully understand that things break but you can take steps to mitigate that. A good first one would be a post asking "What left you on the side of the road." so you can get an idea of any pattens that a breakdown may fall into.
Generally when I buy a car I do a major service including all filters and fluids, check all hoses, pressure test cooling system, replace drive belts etc. And I use that as a starting point. Brake hoses are not expensive, not difficult to change and could keep you from a bad day. Alternator brushes last about 100K miles so I usually do them at 80 or so.
There are some things that you just never know about so if I have not changed some things I just throw a small box in the trunk with a few get home spares in it. water pump, fuel filter, fuel pump, ign points, fan belt etc. Even if you don,t have the abilty to effect repairs it could save you a day or two in a hotel while parts are being located.
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Wow some great stories and great advice, you chaps really are a fine bunch, and a credit to the great cars you drive :). So I guess the moral of the story is that behind every major break down is a interesting story to tell in the future, so rather then "fear" the break down, enjoy it :D I know I do have to start getting my hands dirty a bit and learn the basics of car maintenance, that in itself will lead to confidence! Any one that lives around London or the out skirts and works on their own Pogada and doesnt mind me watching please get in touch! ;) Some of the places you guys have been in the Pagoda's are fascinating, as well as beautiful! Hopefully I will be able to join you guys soon with my own Pogoda tales 8)
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Hi Sammy. I have owned my Pagoda for 14 years and taken multpile trips down to the Med, even as far as Amalfi. All my problems were in the 1st 18 months of ownership. I would give you the following advice. First buy a car that has been used regularly in recent years not just few hundred miles per year. Before you take it on a long trip make sure you have been driving it a lot locally - 6 months as an almost daily driver will shake out any problems closer to home where you are more able to cope with them. On a long trip DO open the bonnet and check oil & water before you set off each morning - If you have been driving all day these old engines can get through a lot of oil. Finally what has really helped my enjoyment of long trips was switching to electronic ignition - not really necessary but it does mean that the car is always in tune on these trips and between servicing. Good luck!
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I've taken my pagoda on several long trips without any problems. That being said, I have had serious breakdowns both of which were my fault. The first occured about ten years ago as I was driving on the highway on a local trip. The temperature gauge had not been working on the car and I was too busy in medical school to keep my car properly tuned and serviced. Anyway, the car suddendly puffed out some coolant from under the hood and into the passenger compartment. Basically, I was running with low cooant and the car overheated. I had no idea as the temp gauge wasn't working. I ended up warping the head necessitating replacement. $3K later I was back on the road. The second incident occured two summers ago. I was driving from DC to Boston and noticed a sudden drop in oil pressure. I pulled over and found oil spurting out of the oil pressure gauge line! The car lost about 3 quarts of oil in a matter of a few minutes but not enough to damage the engine! Funny thing is that a few days prior a friend noticed that the line had a rather ratty looking patch repair. Stupidly, I didn't heed his warning! Bottom line is both breakdowns could have been avoided so keep your car tuned and serviced and stay on top of any known problems.
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Long trips are just what we need to really shake down the car and make any lurking issues spring forward.
On three out of three trips from Seattle to Vancouver with my wife, my 280sl has broken down.
First one was on our 10th wedding anniversary. The right kingpin broke free and the wheel flipped sideways halfway to Vancouver, sending us skidding across an intersection. That trip was completed in a rental car.
Second time, the car would intermittently refuse to upshift out of 2nd gear. Luckily we were already in Vancouver and limped it across the Lions Gate bridge to the German Car show in North Van, where 3 Pagoda lovers instantly had the hood up and helped find that the potentionmeter that measures throttle position at the air intake has shaken loose. It fell off when one guy touched it. Easy fix.
Third time, the car stalled at the border crossing into Canada and then died on the hill up to downtown. The MB dealer in Vancouver couldn't fix it, so I had it shipped back to the states where my mech discovered the throttle linkage had gone badly out of alignment.
The car isn't used daily, so any of these might have come to light closer to home. The moral of the story is to drive it often!
I second Alf's praise for the electronic ignition. I'm very happy with mine and don't miss fiddling with points.
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Longer trips are only part of the story.
I make sure that I test drive everything under all sorts of conditions. Most shops only test drive during the day, and only for a few miles, because that's when they're open for business. I test drive at night when things such as lights, windshield washers, heater, wipers, and blower motor could be needed. What I'm trying to do is to use the car under real, every day, or night, driving conditions. Stop and go traffic, high speed, loafing around town, panic stops - the whole nine yards.
When you get it back, everything works, or you know what isn't working. No blower motor or working heater - don't drive it at night in the rain.
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Today, 2012-02-04, I drove my 230SL away from Dan's "SL Barn." Despite the season, there's no snow or slush on the roads, the Sun peeked out between light clouds, and the temperature was above freezing, albeit just. A glorious day for a modestly long journey! 115km back to London (Ontario), and narry a hiccup the whole way. I had my cell phone, battery pack, extra sweaters . . . just to fight the fear factor. When all is said and done, I realized that the best antidote for the fear factor was having Dan work on the car until he said it was ready.