Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: mdsalemi on October 19, 2012, 14:50:09
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http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/10/19/open-diff-original-versus-unrestored/?refer=news
For those with strong opinions on such things, here is a Hemming blog on the subject.
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My understanding of survivor is a largely original car (mileage not important) which has been consistently maintained to a high standard but may need minor cosmetic refurbishment. The cosmetic flaws can be perceived as patina and should not necessarily be addressed. In my opinion, these cars should be worth more money than nut and bolt restorations - especially the low mileage and documented examples. That's my strong opinion!
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Being a "Car Guy" for many years, I've restored several cars to better than new. Everything new! With that said, I'm really drawn to the cars that have that natural Patina.
Looks and feels like your favorite pair of worn out shoes.
RB6667
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A car is only original once so it's kind of a relative question. In some cases you get all of the original rust and wear when you buy that '' original '' time capusle.
Or, you can buy a rust free car - you buy the car and the rust is free. If you plan on using the car rather than a static display, better buy a restored one.
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the definition that a car is original once is quite limitative. That would mean that even replacing parts that are replaced in normal course of utilization, such as light bulbs, wiper rubbers pr various filters and liquids, waives the label "original" from the car. Also, many seals become worn out no matter what. Would replacing them with parts supplied from MB mean that we drive a less or "semi" original car?
I guess that one could argue that assemblage an "old-new" Pagoda with technically new parts or with parts from various so called original cars-donors would not recreate an original one, but this wouldn't be a replica either.
Not easy ;)
I am aware that beauty contest organizers may have a different view, but for my own use, as long as I can document the origin of replaced parts as being conform with the original specs, ideally from the same source as at the time of production - makes me happy enough as to the originality of the car.
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Maybe I wasn't clear. Replacing normal wearing or maintance items with factory parts won't detract from your car's originality. Painting it, rust repair, interior, and chrome plating won't get you in under the wire.
Restoring it to original condition gives you a prefecly restored car.
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So I think Dan gave us the perfect compromise: "restored to original condition". I'd rather have a perfectly restored one than an original one that is unsafe, and I'd also prefer having a perfectly restored one over a well-maintained, but ratty-looking original (or close to it) example. If really restored very well, it will just look and drive so much better...
I've said before that, at least economically, it is better to buy a freshly and perfectly restored Pagoda than to try and create one, because you will save tens of thousands.
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When I was contemplating my interior restoration, I talked to a true car collector. Porsches, Ferraris, Mercedes, etc. His advice...don't restore the interior unless it is truly "hateful". Meaning a wreck. As I thought about it more, I wanted the car to be a head turner and one my wife and daughter would ride in. I went ahead and had the interior restored. I am really glad I did! I still have patina in the engine compartment and a few blemishes on the exterior (zero rust however!). I am not sure I am a concours person as I want to be able to drive my cars and not worry about it.
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Maintenance item replacement on an original car is entirely acceptable. As we all know, sitting disease is the worst for a car and keeping it running and moving is much better, hence the latitude in wear items by originality/preservation judges.
With any car, consistency across platforms is the overarching concern. That is, does the exterior, interior, engine bay, trunk, top, and undercarriage match? A worn car with a great paint job looks silly, as does a beautiful car with a ragged engine bay. Within preservation classes, that consistency is watched for as well as overall condition. Obviously, the best condition, most consistent, oldest and most significant (rarity, style, d'elegance, etc.) car wins. Within a particular model class preservation judging, like our cars, the best condition, most consistent, least altered example wins.
Here's more information from a nationally recognized survivor/preservation judging event. http://www.survivorcollectorcar.com/ Not all old cars are original/preservation candidates which is what makes them so collectible.
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I was at Classic & Exotic Service yesterday, for a thank you for the St. John's Concours volunteers. There was a question and answer session, and the owner stated that none of these cars were ever designed or built to last forever--therefore, restoration is necessary. The level of restoration depends on the level of decay. He specializes in prewar exotics, with a focus on Duesenbergs. They remanufacture more than 1,500 parts for Dueseys.
Just after this, I went to see a Pagoda...early, 1963. VIN W113.042.10.00072. Has been sitting for 40 years, and the raccoon that got inside didn't make it any better. This is a basket case example, and somebody, somewhere might restore it, but it will take a lot of time, and lots of money--combined with love, patience and will. But, a full glossy restoration is the only thing that will save this car. NOTHING at all will be usable w/o some kind of work. Most of the body looked intact--save for the area behind where the rear bumpers ago which was flapping in the breeze, so to speak.
Full restorations may not be valuable as "preservation class" cars, but we can't turn back the clock, and make people maintain things. This will either sit and continue to rot away, or someone will dump a boatload of money into it, and restore it--while someday someone might turn their nose up at such a perfect restoration.
Few pay for these kinds of restorations with the goal of making money--but if it wasn't for these deep pockets and lofty dreams, we wouldn't have so many beautiful cars on the show fields of today's Concours...
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Some cars just need to be preserved, some need a sympathetic restoration and some need a nut and bolt job. It depends on what you are starting with.