Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: FRITZ68 on January 22, 2013, 02:21:17
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Last week, we put the first base/clear coat on my wife's 68 280SL, allowing it to dry for 2 days. It was then sanded down between coats and this morning it was given the second base coat finish and about 4 or 5 coats of clear coat. We used Transtar paint and clear coat and found that there was almost zero overspray with their clear coat, so this should make our sanding/buffing a lot easier. Color was DB180 silver. Here are some pictures taken late this afternoon - car is parked just outside our paint booth for overnight drying. Now we have lots of sanding and buffing. before reassembly. I will be posting some finished products in a week or two, but here are the results so far. There will be four pictures in this post and four in the following post, since 4 pictures seems to be the limit.
The traffic cones in some of the pictures are so that our forklifts keep "assured clear distance".
Fritz
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Here are 4 more pictures. The detacheable hard top, deck lid and hood were painted separately and are in our body shop on other side of the building (no pictures of those parts yet).
Fritz
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Its such a shame you are going to recover those arches with the no no, :P I mean non original wheel arch trims of rust inducing bling ;D ;D
Looking good though.
Garry
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Thanks Garry,
I agree about the arches, but until I read Achim's recent post 4 days ago on January 18th, I thought they were original equipment. This car is a driver, and about 3 weeks ago we originally started out doing some rust repair on the rear fenders and lower section across the rear of the car, intending to touch up the paint. Expecting paint matching problems (car was painted once in 1985), we talked to Transtar (our paint supplier) and they offered to supply a gallon of original MB-180 base coat and their new clear coat for us at no charge. So we went for the full paint job. Sometimes we get things out too fast, but urgency is not always a bad word. I have had jobs get buried in a corner for years and we no longer do this. Being uninformed about the 280SL, we stumbled along until I recently located this site. It is difficult to rework the fender edges in the middle of a paint job, and I truly apologize to all on this site who are really giving me the best advice and always trying to give me the proper guidance.
Can anyone tell me more about the accessory chrome arches? Were these a Mercedes option, or an aftermarket item? When were these available? I have seen pictures of these on other Mercedes, and on the darker colors they don't appeal to me, but on a silver car, they seem to blend in better. My wife always liked them - I did too until I found that they were not an original Mercedes option, or at least that is my understanding.
Our plan now (paint job came out perfect and is completed except for sanding and buffing) is to reassmble the car; and since we sadly did not perfectly prepare the fender edges, install the arches. We have no options other than starting all over on another paint job. This means waiting for another week for complete drying, sanding down the entire car, reworking the inner fender edges, primer, more block sanding, more primer and sanding, and then remasking and starting from scratch more or less. Since we will then need more paint, will have to get Transtar to mix up more, and they usually take a week or two (plus shipping time) to do custom mixing. Then there is always a chance that the next mix might not be a perfect match, or that the paint job wil not be as good at it looks today. All of this is just not practical for a driver and would take another month from start to finish. If we can't live with the arches, after driving the car this summer there could be a few nicks, we can later (next winter) remove the arches, but from our experience spotting in silver metallic is not easy, as the color will not be 100% the same, so another paint job will be necessary.
Sometimes things can go from bad to worse - I have expeienced this many times. Several years ago we were working on a 1934 Dodge street rod pickup in a custom orange metallic color and spent weeks taking care of tiny little flaws - with paint lifting when touched up and other common problems - eventually using an air brush. We eventually finished the truck and it is perfect, but it wasn't easy and the expense and time involved was unbelievable. Can you imagine what this 280SL would look like if we spotted in above each wheel and the color was not matching the rest of the car? If it gets to this point, we will repaint the entire car again, but this is not an option for us at this time, as we schedule jobs in our shop and have a major (non Mercedes) project coming up starting the first week in February.
My knowledge of any Mercedes car is minimal, but am learning. Just last week I was also informed by Achim (thank you Achim - greatly appreciate your observations and wisdom) that this car was missing the chrome molding on rear fenders behind each wheel and I ordered a set from Poland just yesterday. Thanks again to others for all of the helpful advice and recommendations - too bad that the information about the chrome arches came midway through the painting process, as it could have been corrected in advance.
In summary, want to thank everyone on this forum for the sincere and helpful advice and comments. To say I am impressed with this attention is an understatement. My regret is that I did not check into things more thoroughly prior to starting on what started out to be some minor body work and a quick paint job. Anyhow, I will later post pictures of the completed project in a couple of weeks or sooner. At least I have refurbished and improved the appearance somewhat for a nice car that needed some TLC.
Fritz
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Aftermarket
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As far as I know the only car that had these as original parts were the 300se coupe w112 body began 61 to 65. this was a very expensive car for the time so to justify cost and appeal to US market the side and arch chromes where added, ( like the image below )
As for pagodas I'm curios to know when they became available.
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The chrome arches for the wheel wells were also standard for the 600, the 220 S/SE coupes and cabs, and the mid 50's 300 Sc coupes/cabs/roadsters
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The chrome arches for the wheel wells were also standard for the 600, the 220 S/SE coupes and cabs, and the mid 50's 300 Sc coupes/cabs/roadsters
Here is a picture of my 1962 Model SEb without chrome arches, but with chrome trim across the bottom. Does this seem about right for this car? I am referring to the pictrure just posted of the black 300 SE Coupe, which is similar to my car and to the wording ("the 220 S/SE coupes)" in the above quote ? I have some literature on the 62 220SEb at work for further reference which I will check tomorrow.
If the arches were (or are) available, at what cost for a set of 4? Are they still available?
Fritz
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The 220S/SE coupes and cabs, were the ponton style cars that had the chrome wheel arch trim. The picture for the 111 coupe looks pretty good to me.
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The chrome arches were only stock for the 300 SE (W112) Coupé and Cabriolet but could be ordered (on special demand) for the other 111C's as well.
Those were _NOT_ available for the W113 !!
The chrome sills on the W111 are factory correct for all W111/112 C.
Achim
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Last week, we put the first base/clear coat on my wife's 68 280SL, allowing it to dry for 2 days. It was then sanded down between coats and this morning it was given the second base coat finish and about 4 or 5 coats of clear coat. We used Matrix paint and clear coat.
CORRECTION: We used Transtar Paint and Clear Coat (not Matrix). Earlier posts have been changed.
Fritz
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Here is a closeup of the front end of my wife's 1968 280SL taken yesterday, complete with no stripe, but with aftermarket arches - sorry about the arches, but car was painted before finding out that they were not original equipment and unfortunatly we did not prepare the fender edges for no arches. We hope to finish everything this coming week (install hood, deck lid, hard top and some side trim), plus some more polishing and detailing.
Now if we can only find the hood somewhere in our shop, we can finish assembling the car (LOL). We completely disassembled and polished the perfect grille assembly and replaced the bumpers with new ones from Millers in North Carolina. (The original bumpers were very good, but not perfect, so we went for a new set - also a new set of Phoenix ww tires from Coker). We have a lot of cold weather and snow here in Ohio now, but my wife is planning on driving the car when the weather breaks.
Fritz
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I think the chrome arches look gorgeous on your car and more in keeping with the luxury image that the SL developed by the time the 280SL was produced. They look like they belong there!
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Wow
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Firtz,
That looks very nice indeed
Garry
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The car that MB have in the museum is that colour and with the chrome arches....
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2vn59o2.jpg)
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What color is the car shown from the MB Museum? The reason that I ask is that my wife's car was painted Mercedes 180 Silver (same color as when purchased). However in my picture that I posted, the color appears to be leaning towards a gold. This is from the beige walls in our shop. I will post other pictures soon, once we get the car outside, but we have snow in Ohio at this time. The car from the museum does not appear to be 180 Silver, but more of a light bronze or gold or metallic tan. Does anyone have the name and color number of that paint? And is that paint metallic? Either way it looks very good and I thank you for posting the picture.
As for the arches, they were on my wife's car when it was purchased, and I (having no experience with MB) assumed they were either original equipment, or an option from MB. So when we prepped the car for painting, did not go for perfection on the fender edges, as they were going to be covered anyhow. We finished the paint job in our paint booth on a Thursday afternoon and on Friday, Achim correctly pointed out that the arches were not original to the car. Others chimed in with the same information.
We toyed with redoing the fenders, but the paint was barely dry, and in view of the potential delays and the fact that our paint job was so spectacular, decided to leave well enough alone and go with the chrome arches. Sometime when you start doing touchup with fresh paint, things go from bad to worse. This is based on years of experience restoring many cars. (Who said it was going to be easy?) However late this week, after installing the arches, had to say that they really looked good and I am not at all concerned about them not being original. On a silver car, they blend in nicely. On a dark car they would also look good, but some might feel that they break up the lines of the car.
We did pass on installing the very narrow black stripe that was on the car when it received its first paint job in Cleveland in 1985. When the arches were installed is unknown, but could have been at that time. At the time of the 1985 paint job, the car was entered at the big Cleveland Autorama show and won a first place in its class, so it had to look darn good. In fact it still looked good when I bought it, but had some rear fender rust and some bad areas across bottom of the rear panel below the deck lid. An outdoor picture of this car at time of purchase is attached, showing the silver appearance, which we matched using Transtar Base Coat and Clear Coat. (Thanks Transtar for the free paint- they may be featuring the car in some of their advertising soon). The car was originally all white, then silver in 1985 and now in 2013 received its 2nd repaint in silver. Lots of work, but well worth it!
Fritz
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My guess is that the car at the museum is 462 H Tunis Beige. I believe its the same car that's in the upper left corner of this page. I thought Fritz's car looked more gold than in earlier pics but now I get the effect that the beige walls could have. All in all, the chrome wheel opening moldings look fine. Time to ENJOY it (perhaps when Spring comes at least!).
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The car that MB have in the museum is that colour and with the chrome arches....
Yes James, it is well known that the Pagoda in the M-B museum is a bit of a "dog" - several other details are non-original *) on that one. Despite the views of German SL Club Pagode, M-B has chosen to allow that car to be displayed. One can only hope that this year 2013, with the W113 50yr celebration, they will attend the matter...
/Hans in Sweden
PS *) Unfortunately, true for a number of the cars on display DS
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Here are a few more pictures of the 230SL at the Mercedes Museum (taken by my son a few years ago)
John
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And one more of the interior......
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wow,
The last picture came as a little shock to me
Seemingly the body car is taken care much better than the interior….,,,, if this is supposed to be a testimony of the fully original state of the car I must say that I don't get the message, since the fender chromes demonstrate that good looking but not totally original car can make it into the museum...
In normal circumstances some refreshing of the leather and carpets would not hurt, I guess ;)
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wow, The last picture came as a little shock to me.... Seemingly the body car is taken care much better than the interior
Sorry, but - no. Since we have a good pic from John, I put in some comments...
/Hans in Sweden
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Being in a museum one would think they would have the best.
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Hans,
What does the wording mean on the picure - "Chrome Trim Back to Front" I guess I am missing something.
Fritz
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What does the wording mean on the picure - "Chrome Trim Back to Front"
I borrow a pic here, I have modified it in order to illustrate the correct orientation of the trim piece
/Hans in Sweden
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Who is the guy in the reflection, with his enormous attention to detail.... akin to Achim! Thanks Hans for pointing this out...
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Thank you Hans for such a great illustration. Yoiu sure have a sharp eye to detect this from the rear angle in the picture. Also thanks to 49er for posting all of the pictures of the same car. The paint job on that car appears to be outstanding. Too bad the interior is in need of some work. Regardless of the discrepancies, it is still a nice looking car. I will have to check it out next time I am in Germany, as I have not yet visited the M-B museum.
Since my car was missing these rear fender pieces, (thanks to Achim for pointing this out), I ordered a pair from Classic Car in Poland, and am waiting on their arrival. Without this picture, it might be fairly easy to get them installed incorrectly. We are waiting on the installation of the rear bumper, as it will make it easier to align. Your picture is really very helpful and greatly appreciated
Continuing to look at the Tunis Beige 280SL in the museum, I just noticed one more thing. The metal roof does not match the car, and appears to be Silver in color.
My car is all 180 Silver (body and removable top) . The top has already been painted (twice as we didn't like the first version). It is now being sanded and buffed and should be ready to install later this week.
Like many women, my wife likes the hard top so her hair won't get messed up. When I was younger I always thought the girls liked convertibles, but after owning a few, found out that having a bad hair day was a problem when riding in a convertible with the top down. Rumble seats were even worse in that regard. I guess that was one of the reasons that hard tops with the convertible look became so popular.
I have seen other Mercedes cars with a Black top, and there may be other possible combinations. The combination of the museum car is unusual with Tunis Beige paint, Silver roof and Blue interior.
So my question is this: What color combinations were possible from Mercedes when the cars were new? Were these dealer options? I don't plan on changing my combination, but this might be helpful knowledge for others.
Again thanks to all for such an interesting discussion and for being so thorough and helpful.
Fritz
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For that era, two tone combinations were not unusual. You could pretty much get any (semi-reasonable) combination. The sales books of the time had a cool plastic cut out of the car where you could put together any sort of combination, overlay the plastic outline to see what the car would look like. Engelin's book and Meredith's book have a number of the standard combinations listed.
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http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/RecommendedCombinations
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The hard top and body color do not match. The interior matches the hard top color. I wonder what the ID card say. It is not possible to say that that gold paint was available when the car was built. Seems like a custom job.