Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: n/a on July 31, 2004, 15:27:09
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So lets see? what other classic cars would guys like to own?
I know the other two I like. They would be an 812 supercharged cord
convertible, lamborghini miura.
Pagoda Red
red kelly
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It's a long list, so I will only list the ones I am fairly passionate about:
1. Ferrari Daytona coupe
2. 1967 Mustang 350 GT Fastback, preferably with some Shelby mods
3. Lamborghini 350 GT 2+2
4. 1970 Chevy Blazer K/5 (convertible) or, similar, Jeep CJ5 (with some lift and a bikini top)
5. Porsche 356, coupe or convertible
6. Jaguar E-type 2+2
7. Lancia Fulvia (preferably HF) about 1970
nos. 8 thru 10: More Pagodas
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Cees have you seen then add for the 230sl that john lennon use to
own? up for $1000.000 YES that much no kidding at classy autos.
Pagoda Red
red kelly
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Must be a typo Red!
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Have you seen the add I'm talking about?
red kelly
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No I haven't but I counted 6 zeros in your post, so that would be $1 million. If that is true, then I guess they figure, "if you don't ask for it, you'll never get it"!
They'll never get it.
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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someone told me they got $875.000, don't know if this is true.
have a look at the site? might be gone www.classyauto.com
Pagoda Red
red kelly
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I stand corrected - I still don't think this car would sell for much more than $100,000 though:
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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I guess I have to admit that a Ferrari would be something that I would like to add to the garage. A 328 or 308. quattrovalvole would be within the realm of the attianable. There is just some special aura about that that darn prancing horse.
Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto
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I would want a 1961 - 1963 300sl roadster. 8) As for John Lennon's car I first saw this pictured in John Olson's sl market letter where it mentioned the highest price paid for a Pagoda. The car sold for over $100,000.00 U.S.D.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
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The cars I would like to buy but will have to wait a while are the Ferrari 275 GTS and the Mercedes 300SL Roadster. Next week I am taking a serious look at a 1989 Porsche Cabriolet SuperSport Edition (Black Metallic with Tan Interior) in Newport Beach, California still owned by the original owner with 40,000 original miles.
Howard Kramer
71280SL
387/255
Soon to start a documented ground up restoration.
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It seems we have some very exotic fantasies. Before reaching my decision that a Pagoda was the car for me I was contemplating an Austin Healey 3000. The power to weight ratio is superior to our Pagodas. An excellent mechanic asked me why do the British drink warm beer? The answer was because they have Lucas refrigerators. The Lucas electronics in Austin Healey's do not have the reputation for reliabilty that our Bosch systems do. I believe the engineering of our vehicles is exceptional.
regards,
Ted 1969 280SL
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I have spent more $$$ than I care to think about and nearly three years having an exact original GT40 built. We are about half done, perhaps a little more as the engine is finished (not dynoed, though) and the monocoque and body are built. We are sorting out all the various bits for the suspension and drive train, etc.
The GT40 has been first on my list of desirable cars to own since I was a teenager, which is now a very long time. The original Mark 1 car is every bit as much as a classic design as the 113 Mercedes. They were fast, reliable and exciting cars, although not terribly practical. (no room for anything other than people, leak in rain, poor visibility rearwards, etc). Modern versions and updates address the ventilation issues etc, and the pushrod Ford V8 now makes even more power with new head and cam designs, EFI, etc. The one thing that most do not change is the body. It is already so astonishingly beautiful that most people just pick a paint color and concentrate on getting the car on the road.
Also long time favorites: 289 (not 427) AC Cobra, Ferrari 275GTS, Cord 810/812 (these are better in the unblown form, I think), Ferrari 288GTO, classic Mini-Cooper. vintage Triumph Bonneville (OK,half the wheels but twice the fun), and BMW R90S or R100S (again half the wheels).
Many cars you THINK you might want to own and drive turn out to be dogs. My 111 280SE convertible was a disappointment. And my older 1970s Mini kind of likewise. My late-model Euro classic Mini, though, with EFI, better brakes, better interior, but still only 10 ft long is one of my all-time favorites.
Sorry for the long-winded post... :oops:
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Oh, and YES!!! an E-Jag, preferably a Series 1 convertible, as you say, Cees. Wonderful cars and with some updates a thoroughly reliable and enjoyable daily driver.
As an addendum to my post above, if you EVER have a chance to ride in a 288GTO Ferrari, do not miss that chance. If I could own ONE Ferrari in my entire lifetime, it would be a 288. If you ever get a ride in one, or get to drive one, you will never ever forget it.
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Yep! And the reason that the Concorde supersonic aircraft ultimately only plied transatlantic routes was because the Lucas Avionics were only certified for 6 hours continuous operation!
I remember reading once that the car that the M-B engineers most respected back in the 60's was the Austin-Healey 3000. It was rugged, reliable and went like stink. Eugen Boehringer fought many a close duel with the big Healeys on the rally circuit.
quote:
Originally posted by ted280sl
It seems we have some very exotic fantasies. Before reaching my decision that a Pagoda was the car for me I was contemplating an Austin Healey 3000. The power to weight ratio is superior to our Pagodas. An excellent mechanic asked me why do the British drink warm beer? The answer was because they have Lucas refrigerators. The Lucas electronics in Austin Healey's do not have the reputation for reliabilty that our Bosch systems do. I believe the engineering of our vehicles is exceptional.
regards,
Ted 1969 280SL
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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Here's my wish list:
1) Jag E-Type convertible series I
2) Ferrari Dino 246 GTS
3) BMW 3.0 CSL
4) Porsche 911 Carrera RS
But for now i'm still working on getting a decent Pagoda. Hopefully soon.
Mo
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Very near term:
Series 1 or 1.5 E-type FHC
Longer term:
Any DB4, DB5, or SWB DB6 Aston Martin
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here is the list
Ferrari BB512
E55
1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
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Has to be a Ferrari 196x 250 GTO. Sexiest lines ever put into sheet metal. I am with Jim on the GT40, that was something special. I cant wait to see the first GT on the road. In the realistic relm, I have a big jones for a 911. Love the body styling. If you haven't figured it out yet, I need the long fenders arching over the headlights and a lump in the hood doesn't hurt. Thus, the Pagoda!
Shawn Rock
Philly, PA USA
1968 280 SL 4 speed
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If you don't feel like spending the tens of millions needed to buy a nice GTO, here's a very nice Scaglietti-bodied exact GTO repro for sale in CT for around the price of a Gullwing:
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Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Lets see!! to start a new Mercedes-Benz SLR
ford new GT
Lotus Eleise GT
250SL 5 speed 904 blue with parchment leather
Mercedes-Benz 6.9.
New Saleen Mustang converible Black
Mercedes Benz C111 series 3
one of the 29 alloy body 300SL gull wings
540 K special roadster
Bob Geco
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Well, for starters, I'd take either Malek's or Jans' freshly unveiled Pagoda! (see Picture Gallery!)
I guess after all these years, I've developed tunnel vision ... oh well :)
James
63 230SL
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I would choose only Mercedes cars, just to not change of dealer ;) :
MB in production:
1) Mercedes-Benz SLR-McLaren, in black color (the coupé)
2) Mercedes-Benz CL 600 (the coupé for 4)
3) Mercedes-Benz SL 65 AMG (the cabrio)
4) Mercedes-Benz E 55 K AMG Station Wagon (the "van")
5) Mercedes-Benz G 500 Short Wheel Base (the 4x4)
6) Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG (580 HP just for fun...)
Other MB:
1) Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR "Uhlenhaut Coupé" (1955)
2) If MB doesn't want to sell option 1) ;) , then: a "simple" 300 SL "Gullwing"
3) Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR Street Version
4) Mercedes-Benz 500 SL (R 129)
5) Mercedes-Benz 500 E (W124)
6) Mercedes-Benz 540K "Autobahn Kurier" (1938)
To dream is so easy... but once you own a Pagoda, you can live without all these cars! :)
Regards
Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
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DITTO! I told my wife when I first set eyes on my Pagoda 15 years ago that I would either buy that car when it became available or a 4.2 E-type Fixed Head Coupe, if I could find a nice one first. I searched for 14 years for the FHC of my dreams and never found it. Then owner of my Pagoda gave me a call...
quote:
Originally posted by SL113fan
Very near term:
Series 1 or 1.5 E-type FHC
Longer term:
Any DB4, DB5, or SWB DB6 Aston Martin
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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What's interesting to me about all this is that I have a number of acquaintances who have tons of money (unlike me) and have collections of cars, often very expensive exotics. Virtually all those cars sit indoors and don't get driven. Which means they deteriorate etc. Not an uncommon problem. For better or for worse, I can't afford anything really exotic (well except maybe the GT40 which has developed a case of financial 'mission creep') and all my cars get driven. Not as often as I'd like but they do. The two I drive the most are the Mini-Cooper and my 280SL. There are a lot of cars on the lists above that I would like as well- Jaguars and old DB Astons in particular- but from my experience, once you pay beyond a certain amount, the return in fun on your investment goes down.
I was surprised more people didn't want an early Porsche, like a 356C. They are supposed to be wonderful cars, but I have never owned one. I was glad to see the Berlinetta Boxer on the scoreboard; my favorite is the 365BB, the first one, which has better lines, SIX exhaust pipes, and a higher-winding engine. If you can't afford a 288GT0- and most of us can't- the 365 Boxer is a worthy alternative.
There was a letter in Sports Car Market last year from a lucky fellow in CA who has owned a 288, an F40, and an F50. He liked the 288 the best. Fortunate man, to have been able to make the comparison. :D
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I've been pursuing a "correct" FHC for roughly 3 years. It seems that as soon as one is advertised (by private party) a buyer calls willing to pay listed price sight unseen. I can deal with the list price part, but buying an E without first examining it is far riskier than with a Pagoda. For those unfamiliar--if you think Pagodas can have sorted pasts then try piecing together an average E-type's history. For the rarer Aston, I've convinced myself that I'll probably have to go the dealer route when the time comes.
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Hughes
DITTO! I told my wife when I first set eyes on my Pagoda 15 years ago that I would either buy that car when it became available or a 4.2 E-type Fixed Head Coupe, if I could find a nice one first. I searched for 14 years for the FHC of my dreams and never found it. Then owner of my Pagoda gave me a call...
quote:
Originally posted by SL113fan
Very near term:
Series 1 or 1.5 E-type FHC
Longer term:
Any DB4, DB5, or SWB DB6 Aston Martin
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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Well once I manage to get my act in gear and find the right Pagoda to grace my gagare, its stable mate would have to be a fly yellow Ferrari Dino GTS.
Rob
Rob Walker
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I would like an FMC Motorcoach with a fully enclosed car hauler trailer to put my 230SL in. I think I would never come back home if only I had those two magic ingredients to go with the rig, time and money. First trip would be coast to coast stopping only to unload thE SL and explore the backroads of America. Grand Canyon here I come!
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Oh dear, this is a tough one as the list is LONG....
Citroen SM
Citroen Light 15 (Traction Avant)
Morris Mini Mk1 (sliding windows, external hinges and all)
Porsche 911T - anything before the intro of the Whaletail spoiler
Porsche 911 (993)
1965 Mustang Convertible
Lotus Elise
Aston DB7 Convertible
Beacham Jaguar MarkII
Chevvy or Ford Truck (circa 1950)
A Harley
and
A 246 Dino
There's a few more modern items...like a DB9, New SL55, the new Bentley GT
Can you tell we don't have kids? :D
edit - oops, forgot the 240Z
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Okay I'll take a deep breath ...........
300SL Roadster
280SE 3.5 Convertible
600 Grosser Landaulet
600 SWB
300SEL 6.3
450SEL 6.9
E55 AMG
SL55 AMG
CLK55 AMG Cabriolet
911.....last of the Air Cooled Turbos
356 Speedster
'65 Mustang Convertible 289
'67 Fastback Mustang
'59 Cadillac Fleetwood Convertible
Plymouth Hemi 'cuda
Miura SV
250GT swb California Spyder
........how long can this list be ??? I've another 10 pages !!
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
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My list of desirable classic cars is probably more eclectic then most:
Not in any order--
Any 1930's American Austin Convertible
1973 Maserati Merak in light metallic blue
1960 MGA, bright Red, as driven by Elvis in "Blue Hawaii". It would be desirable if it were the "Twin Cam" version, and include a mechanic with all the camshaft shims so he could adjust the camshaft on a weekly basis...
1967 Austin Cooper S rally prepared with 1 1/2" SU Carbs, SCCR gearbox, Paddy Hopkirk accelerator, fender flares, 70 series tires, ported and polished engine, forged rockers, and a Union Jack on the roof.
1966 Gogomobil Cabriolet. Rare, but I've seen one parked on the street in Germany many years ago.
Any late 1950's or early 1960's Mercedes Cabriolet
1940 Cadillac Convertible Coupe on Fleetwood wheelbase, 141". Yeah, baby--6000 pounds of American Iron in a 2-seater!
1967 Sunbeam Tiger Mark IIa with the Ford 289 engine. Of course the 289 would have to be "prepared" and the Tiger's suspension matched appropriately.
Rally prepared 1968 Datsun 510
Toyota 2000GT
mid-1960's Rolls Royce Limo
OK I've just run out of garage space...
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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Well thanks guys, your posts are fantastic keep them comming.
The list of the ones I would love but won't be able to afford
even if I won the lotto, are;
My dads jaguar C-type no:050 which he raced in the fifties, his Ferrari 750 monza spyder now worth 1.5 million, alta GP3 F1 car
racing years 50,51 Aston Martin Db5 and his pontoon which he loved
and I never got to see as I hadn't been born yet. Also I might want
dads Lamborghini Miura what a car.
Pagoda Red
red kelly
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Shame on you all! Not an XK or Blower Bentley amongst the lot of you!
;)
Cheers,
kns.
1965 230SL, Manual
[1965 220SEb Coupe, Man.]
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This is my favorite. Just a dream as these cars are in a price range of a 300sl.
Gerard Wuisman.
1970 280sl
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Kns What do you mean not an xk or blower amongst the lot of us, jag c-type is an xk it's an xkc050
Pagoda Red
red kelly
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anymore for anymore?
red kelly
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1. Ferrari Daytona Coupe
2. Ferrari Daytona Spyder
3. 300SL Roadster, 1960
4. Maybach 62
5. 300SEL 6.3
6. 280SL 3.5 conversion
7. Any V12 Packard
I'll stop there for now
tom in CA
2003 C320 Coupe
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A Group A stage rally Lancia Delta Integrale that isn't falling to bits.....like mine :)
Malc
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A Citroen DS Station Wagon.
Aside: The Citroenians in Germany are just as crazy about their cars as the Pagoda people on this forum. As a member of the Andre-Citroen-Club, I know what I am talking about. Both pages are extremely entertaining - and extremely informative.
Juergen
64 230SL #2933, 4sp, signal red, white hard top
93 Citroen XM station wagon
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Porsche 911 Carrera or SC
Porsche 993 C2S
Mercedes 300SL Roadster
Ferrari 246 "Dino"
1966 Shelby 350 (Mustang)
1969 Mustang Mach 1
1970 Chevelle SS
1969 Camaro SS
Porsche 914-6
BMW 3.0CS
BWM 2002tii
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This may say something about me, but I am strongly attracted to the Citroen 2CV, and would love to have one.
Joe
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe
This may say something about me, but I am strongly attracted to the Citroen 2CV, and would love to have one.
Joe
Joe,
I believe that US citizens are allowed a one time personal import... If you want a 2CV you had better be quick as they are fast disappearing, being raced (you should see it!!) and kept as values go up
A 2CV was my very first car with a 425cc engine and 0 - 50mph just before boredom set in, and there was a following wind[:p]
Cheers
Malc
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Joe & Malc please correct me if I am wrong on this. Isn't the Citroen 2CV a very difficult car to roll over? I vaguely remember something about this when I was living (3 years)in Europe.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
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The 2CV IS very hard to roll over. I know because me and a couple of friends once tried to (this was when we were under age 20). It has a cloth roof so what three of us did was stand up inside the car (everyone was about 6'2"") and have the driver make very sharp turns from left to right, adding to the considerable body roll by leaning over in the same direction as the car was turning. I think we hovered over the sidewalk alternatingly left and right, rather than the road. Still, the wheels stayed on the ground at all time and it just would not roll over.
Thinking about this now, we must have felt very confident about this feature of the car because we sure could have had a serious accident!
Then one day the front suspension got very damaged because one front tire had hit a curb hard. Two of us just bare-handedly bent the whole structure back into the right specs (well, close enough anyway).
These are pretty special cars - we still see them on the roads here in Holland today.
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Rumor was if you could roll one the factory would give you a new one or something like that. I don't really know if this was true or not.
One weird thing was how the stick shift would work, sliding in and out of the dashboard. Something like push in turning to the right was first. Pull straight out was second. Don't remember this was about 23 years ago.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
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BTW In addition to the 300sl roadster I wouldn't mind have a 300sl Ostermeyer roadster.
Anton "Tony" Ostermeyer was building replica Gullwings and 300sl Roadsters in California. His creations were so good that many of his reproduction parts were sold to M.B. for use in restorations. Many owners were also buying his parts to repair and to replace items that were no longer in available. His parts business alone was bringing in hefty numbers monthly. His cars in some ways were better than the originals. An example of this would be the modern MB suspensions he installed. Modern MB engines and drivetrains. A/C systems and even automatic transmissions. Much of the bright work was reproduced in Poland. Light lenses in Tailand.
Tony started out with Gullwings. He took his personal car apart and from this he made molds. The new panels were constructed of fiberglass coated with aviation grade aluminum. Once the Gullwings were underway then he started building Roadsters.
Tony sold his SL business to a former Rolls Royce executive. I believe 3 containers were shipped to the UK once unloaded Tony made the trip to help set up.
Tony is now retired having suffered a heart attack. Now his hobby is with airplanes.
For those intrested in seeing a 300sl Ostermeyer reproduction go to www.californiaclassix.com Once you enter the site go to the Hall of Fame, scroll down and look for the last one built.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
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quote:
Originally posted by hauser
Rumor was if you could roll one the factory would give you a new one or something like that. I don't really know if this was true or not.
One weird thing was how the stick shift would work, sliding in and out of the dashboard. Something like push in turning to the right was first. Pull straight out was second. Don't remember this was about 23 years ago.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
Hauser
I don't think the rumour was true, just another urban myth I think. Your right about the gear shift out of the dash. The gearbox is behind the engine and has a "stick" which attaches to the lever. The pattern changed towards the end but pretty funky and actually made sense ina sort of Gallic way :)
They are very difficult to roll, I never managed it and if you watch the antics of the racing 2CVs you wonder how they don't do it either.
Interestingly Renault made a Renault 4 (one of the worlds first 5-door hatch backs) which also used the gear lever through the dash and rolled all over the place but stuck to the road. I should know I used to "race" my mum's all over the place when I was young and foolish :D
Now I am just older
The 2CV has a big following in the UK because they are so much fun, as long as your not in a hurry, and spare supplies are not bad. You can even get a galvanised chassis now as that is the major rot spot on them.
Cheers
Malc
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Hey Malc
I too had a Renault 4 that I purchased from the first owner. The car had 13,000 miles on it and the floors were completely gone.(Canadian winters/salt) When I had cut out the rust there was an empty hole from siderail to siderail. The body was perfect and after repairs, we drove it for 4 years. Still have the engine in my barn with 30 k miles on it. It was a wonderful car.
Ricardo
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardo
Hey Malc
I too had a Renault 4 that I purchased from the first owner. The car had 13,000 miles on it and the floors were completely gone.(Canadian winters/salt) When I had cut out the rust there was an empty hole from siderail to siderail. The body was perfect and after repairs, we drove it for 4 years. Still have the engine in my barn with 30 k miles on it. It was a wonderful car.
Ricardo
Ha!
My brother still has one, 1986 I think, plus a barn full of bits. Never knew they made it as far as Canada. Parts are pretty hard to find now,(uk) but early renault 5 (Le car) running gear fits, The french Post Office were still buying them new until recently.
Sounds like an excuse for a hoilday in France!
If you have the engine, did the rest dissolve?
Cheers
Malc
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Malc
Can't remember exactly why we stopped driving it, I think it got hard to start which I think turned out to be the coil. I always had this worry that if you got in a collision with a even a dog, you'd lose... my son and his buddies drove the poor bugger into the ground, ripping around the farm. Then he stripped out the suspension and drivetrain to "build" something that never happened and I finally prevailed upon him to dispose of the bits laying around, just last year. The motor seemed worth saving, but I'll never do anything with it. These cars weren't really available in Canada, I think the PO ordered it specially and it just seemed too light to do battle with all the American iron. I ended up with several Renault 12's wagons after that, and these were imported and serviced here, through Renault dealers in Quebec. The 4's were nowhere near as much fun as mini's I owned though :D
Ricardo