Pagoda SL Group
Off Topic => Other cars => Topic started by: mdsalemi on June 06, 2014, 15:55:19
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I'm not known as a tree hugger, however we were offered (as part of a manufacturer's realignment of inventory in the pipeline) a deal we absolutely could not refuse. We had planned on getting a [Ford] Fusion (normal gas model) in September when young daughter gets her license, however a deal on a Fusion Energi PEV Hybrid was offered on Tuesday. We jumped, as it would be at least $100 less per month in capital costs. Factor in the presumably reduced cost of operating and this will be an interesting 2-year (lease length) experiment. (Sometimes I think like an accountant, Cees :D)
Within 24 hours of the deal being offered, my local Ford dealer (who graciously held one for me) sold every one they had; took many from other dealers here, had two additional sales (waiting lists) lined up for each deposit, and had also gone deep into Ohio and was taking them off the hands of Ohio dealers too. The inventory issue was cleared up quite quickly here, and will probably be cleared up nationwide shortly. Mainstream media review have been positive to mixed, with the big sticking point being the excessive price of the PEV upgrade. Well, when you remove that issue, it all begins to make sense…at least for a while. ;)
(I don't believe the car sold as a Fusion in Europe is the same one…)
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Slightly off your topic Michael but allong the same lines on hybrid/full electric, I have always wanted to get a fully electric vehicle just as a city runaround for my wife. The idea of not being a slave to the petrol pumb is inviting.
Still have that hope and actually would think about a Smart but they dont have an electric one here. Are they in UK in RHD?
Garry
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How about an electric car that actually looks like a car? ;)
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-vw-e-golf-20140530-story.html
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Interesting to see when they make a RHD. Same for Fiat 500e.
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Mike,
Ford Fusion in Europe was an entirely different car that now is discontinued. As usual, Wikipedia can be a source of information as it shows links to both Fusion US and Fusion Europe sites
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion
Ford Fusion US is sold here as Ford Mondeo, although I haven't heard of an electric version of that car here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mondeo
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I have always wanted to get a fully electric vehicle just as a city runaround for my wife. The idea of not being a slave to the petrol pumb is inviting. Still have that hope and actually would think about a Smart but they dont have an electric one here. Are they in UK in RHD?
Make no mistake--the full plug ins, despite what anyone may say, are interim experiments. Now, beyond that, I've had the opportunity to drive the Version 1 of the Smart Electric in a Press Drive back in 2010, in Brooklyn NY across from Manhattan (for those geographically challenged.) Aside from finding a place to plug it in for city dwellers, this car was great. Having all the torque, all the time meant that I could, and did, beat the taxis off the line on Flatbush Avenue. My driving partner was a former Peruvian Formula 3 driver, and I think he felt a bit uncomfortable as I put on my NYC driving hat and really put it through its paces. It didn't fail on any account and was quite pleasing. Then, last year I drove the second generation, again in a Press Drive, but this time in Ann Arbor, Michigan. This is a small, urban city, which quickly turns to rural area. The second generation was the same; I think most of the improvements were minor to the driver on a Press Drive, but major electronic changes. The car is quite small as you can see it parked next to bicycles in Brooklyn! By last year, Smart was rolling this out in a wider range of places than the first wave. I think we might find it in Australia someday. http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/smart-fortwo-electric-drive-review-11579#.U5NtXhY_1NY
If you can deal with the space issue, a Smart is fine. It is quite comfortable for a driver, and a passenger. I didn't feel space challenged in the least, though I'm not that tall. The only issue would be what you are doing when you get to your destination? If you are picking up, by yourself, a load of groceries, you are fine. If you expect to make a major home center run, well…but in any case I really like the little thing.
The news around here recently was Sergio Marchionne (CEO of Fiat/Chrysler) saying "Please don't buy my Fiat 500 Electric. I lose $14,000 on each one…" I don't think these things are moneymaking propositions yet, the Ford included.
I think the Fusion Energi looks exactly like a car, Alfred. The Smart looks a bit like a toy, but that's part of its charm!
http://www.netcarshow.com/Ford-Fusion_Energi-2013-wallpaper.jpg
Turns out that my next door neighbor, a tool/die/body engineer, was the guy doing the CAD work on locating the "hole" in the front fender for the plug on the Fusion (see photo.) The stylists and engineers kept moving the location, which required him to keep making new CAD drawings. Finally he put a stop to it and said, "No, it's staying where it is now…" and there we have it. ;D
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Why not an electric Pagoda? ;D
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080786_converted-mercedes-sl-electric-car-on-ebay-is-a-real-beauty (http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080786_converted-mercedes-sl-electric-car-on-ebay-is-a-real-beauty)
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... I think the Fusion Energi looks exactly like a car, Alfred. The Smart looks a bit like a toy, but that's part of its charm! ...
Of course it does to you. To me Ford cars always look like .. well .. like Ford cars. ;) ;D
But whenever I need a rental I don't mind getting one!
Actually it is rather disappointing to see how similar all the modern cars are now. Difficult to keep them apart these days, they seem to be all "fusion" cars, just like current cuisines.
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Johan, please don't even think about it ...... Please
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Actually it is rather disappointing to see how similar all the modern cars are now. Difficult to keep them apart these days, they seem to be all "fusion" cars, just like current cuisines.
Alfred, are you going out on a limb here and saying that the Audi looks like the Ford, and may also bear resemblance to a Hyundai and a C-Class too?
[you are 100% correct…they all are beginning to lose distinction in styling…]
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Hi Michael,
I am not out on a limb but firmly grounded when I write: they all look alike.
Take one pair of 2 wheels connected by an axle, put a bubble on top and now shape the bubble in a wind tunnel until you have optimal aerodynamics, what do you get?
The result is what we see today; very little designers can do to create a unique brand contour or image.
Even Land Rovers are starting to become homogenized, the only exception I know is the Hummer! :o
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Very true what Alfred is saying, therefore most of us are delighted to own a timeless car like our Pagode/Pagoda ... Most of us also don't care about gas consumption when we do get a chance to drive it :) the pure joy of driving our car pushes such thoughts right over board so to speak.
I will however get myself an electric bicycle this summer .... See I'm not at all against new technology at all, :)
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the only exception I know is the Hummer! :o
…or my Flex, which is styled like a brick, or perhaps a refrigerator on its side? Don't think it ever saw a wind tunnel; if it did, nobody paid attention! :D They are not popular in any place but Michigan, and from what Tom Hanson tells me, they've replaced the Audi Q as the preferred mode of transport for Soccer Moms in OC. I cannot confirm nor deny his report; just repeat it. I kind of like it. I'm on my 4th.
You do know that the Hummer is long dead, right?
Rolf, Smart makes a very costly electric bike with Bosch technology; there are other manufacturers using it too. Quite fun! You need the motor because the bike is way too heavy to pedal without it!
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Its hard to get more like a brick than a MB G Wagon. It wouldnt matter if it was going sideways or forward, the resistance would be the same :o
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…or my Flex, which is styled like a brick, ...
Michael, yes you got me on that one, but I did not really think about medium or large SUVs, like the G-wagons.
The other ones I forgot are those "funky" boxy cars like the Scion xB, Nissan Cube and Kia Soul.
I had a good laugh when one of our grand nephews noticed a black xB and asked whether that was a hearse for midgets.
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I had a good laugh when one of our grand nephews noticed a black xB and asked whether that was a hearse for midgets.
Oh, Alfred--that's priceless!
On the subject of brick-like cars, and jelly bean cars that all look the same, thinking about it this is NOT a new phenomena. Just go back to the 70s, with the predecessor of today's Golf--the Rabbit. A lot of cars adapted this 2-box styling including the Plymouth Horizon, and others that started using I4 transverse front drive engines. These however were not new; Giugaro adopted this style from the original Mini, and later 1200 series Austin/Morris platforms. Going back to the 50s there were plenty of bulbous cars that looked similar, and in the 30s, many cars in a certain body style had very similar styles. There's always been the outliers, of course, and I suppose that's what makes life fun.
We picked up the PEV Fusion on Tuesday. Took it for its first longish drive yesterday, about 50 miles round trip. The first 15 miles or so was running on pure electricity, and was something well over 100 MPGe. When the gas kicked in, in regular hybrid mode, eMPG plummeted of course, but the total trip yielded MPGe of 66. The economics are prettying compelling. There's a significant capital cost reduction due to the good deal we got on this, and the reduction in fuel usage only adds to that. When I fill up my "brick" of a Flex, its about $55 now; it gets 17-19 MPG around town, and maybe 22-24 on the highway…when the Fusion gets put into regular use by our daughter to school next year, there will be very little gas used due to the short trips she'll be taking. On the minus side, half the trunk is gone, as this started life as a regular car and they needed some place to put the batteries. On the plus side, this began life and is much like a regular car...
Like a Nissan Leaf; Prius, or even a Smart Electric, there is a boatload of technology in front of the driver, things like a calculator to tell you braking efficiency. Fast braking will yield maybe 50% energy return to the battery. Slow and gentle, I got between 90-100%. These kinds of cues help you maximize your MPGe. Battery drain, gas usage, all of these things are on various digital gauges. The dealer has a two-person tech team (they are, not surprisingly, geeky 20 somethings who know and love all of this) to teach all the fundamentals, if you so choose.
We've got a bit to learn on it yet, which I'll start by reading the manual! Then, have to figure out the best location for the 240VAC Level 2 charge station...
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Oh, Alfred--that's priceless!
Yup, that chap has a wicked sense of humor. :)
What about this report? I hope the design engineers are better than the testing engineers! :o
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/06/ford-revises-c-max-fusion-mkz-hybrid-fiesta-fuel-economy-ratings/index.htm
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Alfred, I KNEW you would bring this to attention here. Not relevant for me or for this. Here's why.
1. The report has to do with the published, printed on paper specifications for the EPA cycle test--not real world.
2. What I reported for my car is real world, not published but observed via the MPGe computer and the fuel flow meters. I can tell you that on my Flex and SHO, I don't care what the published specs say--but the car's internal fuel flow and consumption meters are spot on. I expect that the one on the Fusion too, is accurate.
Oh, one more thing. The dealer called and said we'll be getting a check for $525. That buys a lot of fuel and electricity for this car!
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Oh, and we are so happy with the FIRST car, we're replacing one of our drivers with a SECOND Fusion PEV. Our local dealer (bless his heart) found the second one in Virginia (normally out of the scope of dealer car exchanges; it's 500 miles away) and it will be here this coming week. Yes, another rebate coming due to erroneous EPA sticker numbers, but the real world use will save us (at least for the lease period) a LOT of money on fuel. Considering that gas is at $4.00 right now in many places here in Michigan, (been climbing steadily for months now) and reportedly on the way up from here, so far we're happy with the decision! :)
Now another summer project will be installing that level 2 charger.
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Michael,
how disappointing. ;)
I thought your second fuel efficient car would be this one: http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/vehicles/2014/bmwi/bmwi_i8redirect.aspx
0 to 60 mph in 4.2 seconds! :o
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Alfred, no deals available to me. Efficiency is not only mpg or mpg-e, but total cost. The BMW would cost a fortune. Beside they are not allowed in our driveway... :D
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Mike, why would a BMW not be allowed in your drive way :) Glad I drove the Benz when I parked in your drive way ~grin~
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R-D
next time try Mike's resistance by arriving in a Trabant or Wartburg... :D
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Stan,
I mentioned this since I owned and drove 7 BMW's during the period of 1987 to 2013 four ///M3's, two Z4's and one 235is
The 535is is still in the family, my daughter drives this car now (she learned to drive in that car and we made a family drive across Canada/US), she will never sell it, at least I don't think so.
Last year, Mike invited us to come to his house after the Classic Car Show on the Green in his neighborhood, I was at the car show with Peter (pj) and his wife in my then 2012 ///M3 ... I guess Mike would have politely said "Dieter you can park in the street" and that would have been fine, for he lives in a very nice area ~grin~
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Mike, why would a BMW not be allowed in your drive way :) Glad I drove the Benz when I parked in your drive way ~grin~
Figuratively, not literally of course. It had to do with our ownership, not that of friends and visitors. When the big blue oval is on my wife's pay stub…we don't lease a BMW.
Heck, I had an electrician here today and he had a Chevy truck of all things! :D
(I let him in. Hope it didn't leak any oil…)
The second Fusion PEV has arrived at the dealer and we pick it up on Friday.
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Mike,
Do keep us up to date as to how you like to drive the car(s) it would be great feedback.
This link here has some great tips on fuel savings.
Click to open, some good pointers ------> http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/how-to-save-money-on-gas/index.htm
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Rolf-Dieter,
I've been driving it around town. It's great; the pure-electric mode won't last long, and if you take it on a highway, you'll drain the battery in a hurry. But, driving around town it's fine. There's no trunk to speak of, being consumed by hidden batteries, but for passengers this car is quite comfortable. Normal operation mode is "automatic"; the car decides when to use the battery, and when to turn on the engine. For the around town yesterday, I switched to pure electric just for fun. It's pretty amazing how the auto engineers have managed to provide the same feel in driving to a car with a totally different power train. This feels like a normal car; the Smart Electric, by contrast, felt like an extremely powerful golf cart, but it doesn't have an engine. My wife was second guessing herself about getting rid of the Taurus SHO, but she won't miss the $200+ monthly fuel bills. Gas is near to $4 a gallon here. We'll put about 15,000 miles per year on her Fusion Energi, and maybe close to 10K on the other.
Most of that Consumer Reports article is all common sense stuff. I've been telling people to use regular gas for a long time. On any car with a computer controlled engine management system (like the last 20 years or so?) shouldn't make a difference except in HP. If you plan on a run on a dyno, go ahead and fill with premium. I cannot believe, after just coming from a 1,500 mile road trip, how many people drive at full highway speed with the windows open! I couldn't stand the noise! (and yes I wear earplugs when I drive the Pagoda for extended highway runs!) I'd have to believe a trailer or one of those hitch-mount platforms is better than a roof rack!
Started making plans (that was the electrician) for installing the level 2 charge station; this will be a 220V charger which works in 2.5 hours instead of 7. There's a little bit of work involved there starting at the service entrance, but should be complete by the end of July.
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$4 a gallon that's tough ???
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Nice feedback Mike .... Thanks!
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$4 a gallon that's tough ???
Gas or petrol is relatively the same all over the world; the barrel price of oil doesn't change as much from geography as it does from time. You folks over there triple the price of fuel with taxes to pay for a social economy. We don't have that here. What's happened, however, is that fuel prices locally have gone up nearly 25% in the past six months. That kind of rise spurs some action. If we can reduce our fuel cost, we will.
How much is it that you pay for your health care? Oh, that's right--you have the NHS! ;) Planning on a university for my daughter is looking to be over $50,000 per year…how much do your university students pay? Oh, that's right. Capped at L9,000? Those two items alone are just indicative of why taxes on fuel (and VAT and darn near everything else) are so high in UK and EU.
The peculiar thing is there doesn't seem to be a reason for the fuel price increase--it just happens. Down in North Carolina, just the other day, I paid a significantly less $3.22 per gallon…for no apparent reason. Confounding this, their gas tax in NC is about twice that of Michigan! Go figure. :-\
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Nice feedback Mike .... Thanks!
The more you drive, the more you learn. At the conclusion of each trip, the car presents a summary of time, distance travelled, eMPG, how much EV versus gas mileage, and the fun and all important summary of braking efficiency--how much of the braking energy was returned to the battery. If you are very careful in the right amount of traffic, you can achieve 100% or near to it. This means, for example, that your brakes were not used at all, but the motor was used as a generator for all the braking. You get a grade for each full stop, too--and it becomes a game to try and improve your braking and keep it above 90%.
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Looks like Mike the automotive engineers and designers do have there long term thinking caps on when designing those cars for now and the future!
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This morning, again, learning a bit more: the summary was this on my ride home from the gym.
Distance travelled: 3 miles
Braking Regen efficiency: 84%
EV Miles: 3
MPG: 999 (no gas used)
kW-Hr consumed: 1
There are a few stop lights on this route home, and you can't control when they go yellow and red. Shorter stops=lower braking efficiency.
As you can see it was all electric on this route.
At my current rate, this 1 kW-Hr cost $0.12.