Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: bpossel on September 28, 2004, 15:24:12
-
:?: What maintenance can be done to the frame (with the canvas on) to prevent issues? Do the joints in the frame need to be lubed? If so, with what to avoid staining the canvas?
Are there adjustments that can make the top work better? For example, I have to pull the frame forward and yank it for it to reach and fall into the holes on the windshield frame.
Hints and tips are appreciated!
Thanks!
Bob
bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320
-
I have only cleaned (with some steel wool) the frame - some tarnish/dirt had formed over the years on the chrome surface. Have not lubed the joints, although this might be a good idea. One thing to make sure of is that all of the bolts are in tight. They sometimes work themselves loose.
As for the fit, I have to do the same as you: after I press down the rear latch, I have to tug pretty hard at the front to get it lined up with the holes. You could try moving the frame + top forward by loosening the bolts that hold the frame down, while also moving the rear latch. Others may be more experienced in this department!
Final tip: I noticed that between the canvas and the folding part of the metal frame that meets the top of the side windows (I hope you are still with me) there was a gap that I could see straight through (about a half inch in the middle, where the gap was the widest). I noticed the same on other Pagodas. What I did to remedy this (lots of wind noise at speed) is I cut strips of self-adhesive black insulation foam, about 3/4 inch thick) that I glued onto the top of the metal frame; now when the top is up, the foam seals the gaps and no more wind noise! (which makes for more comfortable driving longer distances). I will try to remember to take some photos next time I'm at the garage.
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
-
If I may add to the questions here, it seems I remember Cees had a tip for keeping the soft top from riding up on the corners (see attachment) which I've always thought hurt a 113's appearance. Cees, can you or others give a detailed response to eliminating this common occurence?
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Ragtop1.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/Ed%20Cave/2004929163942_Ragtop1.jpg)
43.97 KB
Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA
1964 356C
1971 280SL
-
Hi Ed. Actually getting the corners to stay down is fairly simple. As you are putting the top down, have a close look at how the corners get folded in, into the soft-top well; there is a small ridge in the well that forces the corners UP. Not a smart place for those ridges, but from memory they could be necessary to accomodate the tires or some other part of the car's sub-structure.
Anyway, what you want to do is fold the canvas DOWN with your fingers as the top is reclining into the well, on both sides. You fold the material underneath the frame as it's going into the well. Richard Madison mentioned that he made 'shoe horns' out of some sort of plastic to make this process easier (it can be hard on your knuckles - but it's worth it).
I learnt this tip off the Yahoo! site about three years ago. After years of having the edges curled up, after only one week in the well folded down this way, the corners 'behaved' perfectly and fit nice and snug to the car body.
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
-
Cees, I am testing your theory ;) . A few days ago after reading one of your posts I decided to try it myself. I wonder if Richard Madison would post a picture of his "shoe horn" tool :?: I also have plastic covers on my springs made from an oil container. :D
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
-
Message Preview
Not a frame question, but another question on the canvas...
Do you all leave your soft top folded in the well for long periods? I've had the soft top put away for some time now, preferring the top-down mode (or when a top is needed, the lines of the hard top) Does it crease, or become hard to open and latch if folded for months?
Craig in Bellevue, WA
Silver '70 280SL Euro 4sp
Craig in Bellevue, WA
Silver '70 280SL Euro 4sp
-
Craig - the longest I've had my softtop down is about 9 months. I always keep it on the car when I put the hardtop on for the winter which, in Holland, is most of the year [:0].
One precaution I suppose everyone knows (but still) is to never put the top down when wet or damp. Some put a towel on the plastic window to prevent it from scratching (due to the movement that occurs when driving - if there's sand on the plastic the rubbing will cause scratches). One thing to do at least once a year is aplplying some special plastic cleaner (I use Meguiar's which is very good) to the window, which should keep it in like-new appearance. For the fabric, I use Wolfstein's RaggTop cleaner and protectant once a year, which does a very nice job.
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
-
Nice maintenance routine, Cees. Thanks for sharing. I really like the look of the car with the hardtop on. They certainly didn't nickname this car 'Pagoda' based on it's appearance as a soft top!
Since I am yet to actually take possession of mine, I can only try to envision how often I may use the soft top vs. hard top but know I am going to thoroughly enjoy it regardless of what is or isn't over my head.
Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA
1964 356C
1971 280SL
-
All good tips !
Wasn't Richards "shoe horn" to be used at the sides to prevent chafing
of the soft top as you lower it into the well !
Also Hauser can you elaborate on the "spring covers".
One thing I did to prevent the glas being scratched is to glue a piece of suitable soft carpet onto the forward verticle part of the soft top compartment, i.e the rear part of where your back would be if you sat into the back area!
BTW I also noticed the gap like Cees, over the side windows, and did the same thing........big difference!
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
-
when I put my soft top down I have to open the L shape blacket by hand one one side or it will not go down ,how can I adjust the roof so I do not have to do this
thanks
Erick
1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
-
Here's a helpful hint for lifting the soft top out of its compartment. Make a strap to go around the soft top unit. You can use an old belt or some type of nylon webbing material. By doing this your chances of getting the lower portion of the frame are eliminated.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
-
Erick,
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the rear part of your soft top sticks. If you're talking about the rear window. that's a good thing. If you lose tension in the frame there, it's a disaster.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
-
actualy when I put the soft top down there is a L shape bracket I have to move it to the side to put the soft top down .
usualy the soft top moves this bracket automaticly as it goes down .not in my case
thanks
1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
-
I had this tug problem of Cees to. So I changed the sequence of connection of the front and the rear. Perhaps I'm doing the procedure wrong now but I have no problems getting the front lined up with the holes by first fixing the front and then latch the rear with one strong movement. After some readjusting last winter it goes rather smooth now.
Gerard Wuisman
1970 280sl
-
That's the correct sequence.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
-
quote:
That's the correct sequence
......not according to my 230SL handbook. It says latch the back first then the front. This is what I have always done with zero problems.....
....I can put the top up, latch it, and be back driving the car in under 20 seconds !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
-
I believe the 230SL has different instructions than the 280SL. The 230 book does say latch the back first, however the 280 book says front first. My 230SL only will work by latching the back first as it just wont catch in the back latch easily the other way. Does anyone know why the method changes from 230 to 280 model?
-
quote:
Does anyone know why the method changes from 230 to 280 model?
......Mmm no but there must be some difference to the mechanism or could it simply be that you are less likely to damage the padded header area of the later cars ? No there has to be more to it than that............did the rear bow position change ?
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
-
I was glad to see this topic come up because my soft top frame is apparently "worn". When I posted about inadvertently dropping the lower bow into the cavity, and having the top stuck up, it was pointed out this is a sign of a worn frame. So far, no one has posted how to avoid having the frame become worn to this extent. Also, I'd be interested in whether replacing the worn parts, whatever they are, is something the average DIYer can do.
Thanks,
Joe2
-
And I like to remind all 'Tight Top' owners that the black box in the center rear of the soft top compartment can be moved up to get the hook a little closer to the top...after I moved the box, locking the top became a lot easier...
Richard M
-
eric
after the window section is pushed up fully ,if i dont break the top part of the roof, it will not go back any futher because of these brackets, so it must move something when the top section is broken.cant tell you if this is normall or not.but hope it helps.
andy
spain
-
My owners manual 280sl says and shows on page 14 that my sequens of closing the top as I yesterday presented is indeed the right one. So Cees for a 280sl the easy way is also the right one.
Gerard Wuisman
1970 280sl
-
Hauser,
If your soft top will not lift out easily and completely, it is because your mechanism is broken. A fully operating system allows one to lift the front of the softop without the rear portion to be left behind.
Don
quote:
Originally posted by hauser
Here's a helpful hint for lifting the soft top out of its compartment. Make a strap to go around the soft top unit. You can use an old belt or some type of nylon webbing material. By doing this your chances of getting the lower portion of the frame are eliminated.
1969 280sl 5 spd 1999 ML320 Gainesville,Fl.
-
Thanks Richard,
That's a good tip.
Best regards,
Don
quote:
Originally posted by 280SL71
And I like to remind all 'Tight Top' owners that the black box in the center rear of the soft top compartment can be moved up to get the hook a little closer to the top...after I moved the box, locking the top became a lot easier...
Richard M
-
quote:
Originally posted by erickmarciano
actualy when I put the soft top down there is a L shape bracket I have to move it to the side to put the soft top down .
usualy the soft top moves this bracket automaticly as it goes down .not in my case
thanks
1971 280sl
Erick,
Not sure what L-shaped bracket you are speaking of. Can you post a digital pic?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
-
Hello Bob,
You have the same issue that I have. I click the back of the soft top in first and then pull hard on the front to get it into the holes. This is easier when the weather is warm, more difficult when cold. When stored in the boot, the soft top gets wrinkled in the back, and takes a bit of pulling to smooth it tight. It's always been a bit of a hassle.
Best regards,
Don
quote:
Originally posted by bpossel
:?: What maintenance can be done to the frame (with the canvas on) to prevent issues? Do the joints in the frame need to be lubed? If so, with what to avoid staining the canvas?
Are there adjustments that can make the top work better? For example, I have to pull the frame forward and yank it for it to reach and fall into the holes on the windshield frame.
Hints and tips are appreciated!
Thanks!
Bob
bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320
-
quote:
If your soft top will not lift out easily and completely, it is because your mechanism is broken. A fully operating system allows one to lift the front of the softop without the rear portion to be left behind.
Don
My car had two spring loaded balls and when the rear portion is lifted these click into a locating groove. Not sure if all 113's have these, anyone?, but this is what prevents the rear section from jamming in the compartment, it should, as Don says, always lift out is you just grap the front section.
These can obviously wear and become less effective but there appears to be some adjustment there!
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor
-
I had the same thought about suggesting looking at the adjustable ball-in-socket devices on the top frame. Mine were out of adjustment(too tight!)and a minor change did wonders for the ease of furling and unfurling my top. There seemed to be a great deal of adjustment there, enough that they could be set to not engage at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Ben
My car had two spring loaded balls and when the rear portion is lifted these click into a locating groove. Not sure if all 113's have these, anyone?, but this is what prevents the rear section from jamming in the compartment, it should, as Don says, always lift out is you just grap the front section.
These can obviously wear and become less effective but there appears to be some adjustment there!
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
-
Just to throw my two pence worth in. I was told by a gentleman of the "old school" of mechanicing that you should always "store" a soft top in the "up position" this way there is less tendency for it to shrink or the windows to get creased or damaged.
Plus you can get at the frame etc.
I must admit I usually keep the MGA roof up for the winter
Malc
-
As requested, here are photos of the "shoehorns" used to ease the soft top into the compartment without cutting or shredding.
The previous soft top had cuts on the bottom edge. I found that the rubber protector which wraps around and on top of the outside edge of the compartment was missing. Previous work had left a near knife edge which cut the old top as it was lowered into the compartment.
A permanent fix would be difficult and expensive. I had read a suggestion about putting something between the top and the edge of the compartment to protect the top as it went down.
I found plastic "followers" in a ring binder used to keep the pages centered on the rings. I put one of these between the top and the comparment edge as the top goes down and up. The top slides along the follower just as a foot goes into a tight shoe, hence "shoehorns."
Each 'follower' is about 9 or 10 inches long and about 4 inches wide. Narrower 'followers' found in smaller ring binders do not give as much protection.
Once the top is past the danger point, the shoehorns are removed. Might have to re-adjust the shoehorns as the top starts down to ensure they stay in a proper protective position.
These shoehorns have saved my new top from damage. I use them everytime I raise or lower the top; over two years and not a mark on the top. The idea is not patented and no royalty payments are required...just try it if you think it will help.
First photo shows two "follower" shoehorns at rest.
Second photo shows one of the shoehorns placed between the edge and the top which is about to be lowered into the compartment.
Richard M
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Shoehorns.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/280sl71/20041031203145_Shoehorns.jpg)
30.93 KB
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Shoehorns2.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/280sl71/20041031203231_Shoehorns2.jpg)
19.39 KB
-
I use two heavy duty 8x8 zip-lock bags to accomplish this. They cover over and protect a larger area of the rubber top compartment seal and just fold over the stowed top when done.
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
-
quote:
The previous soft top had cuts on the bottom edge. I found that the rubber protector which wraps around and on top of the outside edge of the compartment was missing.
........is this just the regular rubber weather seal or am I missing something else here.................again !!
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor