Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Madmerc on November 10, 2015, 12:38:19
-
hi all I just purchased a 123 new electronic distributer from sls and was wondering whether I needed to change the coil and leads anyone no how it works and what is needed just got sick and tiered og the points burning out and getting the gap right any help would be much appreciated working round the clock on this 230sl for the last 2 months .
-
Take a look at Pagoda Notes, Vol 3 no 4, it has an in depth article about the 123. Lots of other information out there, but this would be a good place to start.
-
You can find instructions on the 123 web site, http://www.123ignition.nl/downloads/manuals/123MER6.pdf
The way I have done it is to take the ballast resistor out of the loop, running 12V with key on to 15 (+) on the coil. Then connect the red wire to the 123 to 15, and the black wire to 1 (-) on the coil. You need to set the advance curve per the instructions. There is a little port to hook up the vacuum.
I use a Bosch blue coil.
-
thanks ctaylor I will do that I have a red coil they recommended it with a 1.8 ohm ballast resistor is there any difference between the red coil and blue coil thanks
-
Hi,
In my opinion the Bosch coils should not be used without the ballast resistors.
They are there to protect the coils. The operating voltage of the coils is around 8V.
The blue coils as used on 70/71 Pagodas produce an even stronger spark, but have to be used with the correct 0.4 and 0.6 resistors ( again my opinion
Naj
-
To each his own.
I have always followed the instructions from 123 and Pertronix, which specify 12V to the coil and the electronics in the distributor. Over the past ten or so years, I have installed the 12V arrangement/blue coil with 123 and Pertronix on maybe a dozen cars without a problem.
But I have also seen a number of cars with red coils, and cars wired with a resistor that seem to work OK.
I understood, perhaps mistakenly, that the resistors lowered the voltage to protect the points.
Cheers,
CT
-
Hi, Chuck,
Instructions on the box of the red coil clearly state that it should be used with the 1.8 ohm resistor.
Have a look in the Tech Manual under Coils.
The 2nd reproduced page obtained from Bosch also says use a ballast resistor between 1.4 - 1.8 ohms for the red coil.
Pagodas these days are not used for long drives and the coils may not get so hot under intermittent use.
Each to their own as you say.
Cheers
naj
-
A stock Bosch Blue Coil has a 3 ohm ballast resistor INSIDE the coil.
It is different from the red coil which requires external resistance.
There are many inferior "Bosch Blue Coils" out there ... Make sure you do some research and get the right one.
Genuine ones are made in Germany,Spain and possibly Brazil, its stamped on the bottom of the coil.
The one made in mexico is rubbish i was told.
If you are running points, or a points replacement device (Compufire or Pertronix or 123), you MUST make sure your ignition coil has a certain resistance . As i said a Stock Bosch blue coil has a 3 ohm ballast resistor INSIDE the coil.
I suppose the red coil with external resistor will work.
Its just that i was advised by the aftermarket supplier of my 123 distributor to run it with the stock Bosch blue coil with the 3 ohm internal resistance.
-
Hi, Dave,
You need tp specify which 'blue' coil you are talking about.
The blue coil as used in the 1970/71 US Pagodas with transistorised ignition systems (low current thru the points) still use two series resistors, 0 0.6 and and a 0.4 ohms. And the blue one runs 'hot'.
These same coils are used in later MBs, such as the W107 etc.
There are other blue Bosch coils as used in VWs of the era which do not use the ballast resistors.
Naj
-
The part number is on the box .
The resistance across the terminals is 3.0 ohms.
-
There have been many discussions on the forum about the correct coil to use with the 123 distributor.
Several people have gone direct to the 123 distributor manufacturer and have been told to use this particular blue coil with the internal resistor .
See thread ...
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=18525.0
-
The part number is on the box .
The resistance across the terminals is 3.0 ohms.
Ah, that Blue Coil :
It is for a Porsche 356:
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/Ignition-Coil-356-12V-912-914-p24761.html
Also used on MB w115 Model 200 and 200 and various commercials with conventional ignition.
The blue coil for transistorised ignition systems is quite different. The latest Bosch # for it is 0 221 122 001 and uses the 2 ballast resistors mentioned before.
naj
-
I agree. The early blue coil was also used on 190SL's although those cars often used black ones. The black coil is 13 KV and the red one is 26 KV which is why you need double the ballast resistance at 1.8 ohms. I'm not sure what voltage output the blue CD ignition coil runs at but it's probably in the range of the red one, although 1.0 ohms total at the ballast resistors may indicate less voltage output.
Ballast resistors are there to protect your coil from over heating if you leave your ignition on and the points are closed. In light of the fact that the 123 doesn't have points, you may very well not need one. I believe the condenser is supposed to protect your points but that's during engine operation if I remember my grade 9 auto shop correctly.
Or, I could be completely wrong............ :)
-
Quoting the instructions for the 123:
The primary resistance should not be lower then 1 ohm. (If your car was fitted with a coil resistor, you could remove it to get a stronger spark, as long as the primary resistance is not lower then 1 ohm )
And Pertronix:
4. Four & Six cylinder engines require a minimum of 3.0 ohms of primary resistance. Do not remove resistors if the coil primary resistance is less than 3.0 ohms.
5. If your Ignition coil has the recommended primary resistance, remove or bypass all external resistors.
So, whatever colour on the coil, measure the primary resistance and follow the advise above, I believe. I have a "blue" coil with an orange top, no external resistor and Pertronix. Works wonderful.
-
hi guys I received electronic distributer and coil and ballast resistor hooked it all up and it fired straight away I got a bit excited over it only beca0use I had been trying to start it for over a week with no avail , but would like to thank you guys for your assistance. now im moving on to why its running so rich.
-
Which coil to use with a 123 ,and if an external ballast resistor is really required needed clarity.
Many people, including myself, had an opinion but the true answer was far from clear.
To make matters worse there are many aftermarket suppliers of the 123 system around the world, each has a different recomendation.
Yesterday i contacted Frank Bobenthal from "Albertronics" in the Netherlands.
They are the parent company who develop and produce the 123 distributor .
If anybody could give the correct answer it would be them.
You can contact Frank Bontenbal on sales@albertronics.com or the the website is www.123ignition.nl
Here is the Email and the response i recieved.
Hi
I purchased one of your MERCEDES 6-R-V distributors that you developed.
It is for a 6 cylinder W113 1969 Mercedes 250sl.
In your FAQ on your website you recommend the “Bosch blue coil “,
Is this Bosch part #0221119027
You also recommend the ”Bosch red coil “ and the Beru ZS 106 and 109 coils.
For clarity which is the best and do any of these require external ballast resistors ?
Kind regards
Dave Harrison.
Hi Dave Harrison,
For your 6 cylinder engine we recommend Bosch red coil 0 221 119 030 without ballast resistor.
The blue coil is better for 4 cylinder cars.
We are working on a new website....
Best regards,
Frank Bontenbal
I will be ditching my Blue coil in favour of the recomended red coil (minus external ballast resistor )as the manufacturer recomendeds.
Sorry about the earlier advice about the blue coil... i was talking out of my backside ..as usual.
-
Thanks for following this up, hopefully this puts it to rest.
-
I had a 123 ignition fitted by Prestige Garage (an authorised 123 reseller) near Nice about 18 months ago. They fitted the Bosch red coil and bypassed the resistors.
Best,
Mike
-
Hi, Dave
"For your 6 cylinder engine we recommend Bosch red coil 0 221 119 030 without ballast resistor.
The blue coil is better for 4 cylinder cars"
Since you are using a 123 distributor, if you want a stronger spark than from a red coil, use the equivalent of the coil as used in the 1970/71 US Spec Pagodas with transistorised ignition.
Bosch 0 221 122 001 or MB 000 158 2803.
naj