Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Electrical and Instruments => Topic started by: Pinder on January 22, 2016, 01:43:46
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Planning on replacing my existing mercedes transitorized unit with the CRANE 700 system. What part number should I search for ?crane ignition 700-0231. Is there an updated version?
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I just bought and installed the Crane XR3000-0231 about 3 weeks ago. The 700 seems to be on its way out.
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Thanks Tyler. Thats very useful. Ill search for it on the net
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Believe it or not I bought it on Amazon!
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Me too. placed order last night. should arrive on Monday.
Ive order a few parts from RockAuto which is pretty reasonable. I got master and slave clutch cylinders (rebuilt units) for a very reasonable price.
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If you've already bought and installed the Crane, by all means...
But for lurkers reading here, or those in consideration, the Pertronix is surely a worthy consideration. I've had both.
When both are installed and working properly on a car in good shape with no distributor or other ignition problems, there shouldn't be any noticeable difference in driving. On mine, both ran/run great up to high RPMs, nice idle...what could be better? However, it's all about ease of installation and simplicity; the Pertronix has a much neater, tighter installation. It's all self contained inside the distributor with no external boxes to install, or hide.
The Pertronix I installed was the 1864LA which was for my -051 distributor. It replaced the Crane XR700 which worked fine for five years, until it failed due to improper installation by the original mechanic. I don't think there was anything wrong with the unit; it did work for five years, after all.
http://amzn.com/B001CMX48A
http://amzn.com/B000CIRZLM
http://amzn.com/B000CCDLVG
If you have any distributor issues, this won't solve them you need to get the distributor done first. And, there are all kinds of issues that crop up on old distributors.
Or, better yet, invest in the full monty: the 123 Distributor.
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Michael, I replaced my Pertronix with the Crane on my car because of too many problems with it. The first one I got didn't even work out of the box. The second one had some sort of intermittent contact issue inside of it.. I was trying to chase down an intermittent misfire at 2500 rpm. Load was not a factor. The only way I found the problem was by coincidence. I had the coil wire disconnected while I was bumping the key to do a valve adjustment. With the key in the on position the coil just started randomly firing every few seconds or tens of seconds. I had the correct new ballast and coil installed. Pulled the Pertronix out and installed the Crane. Problem solved and Idle seems a bit more stable as well.
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Sounds like you simply had a bad Pertronix unit, there's nothing inherently wrong with the design that would cause your issue. It's a Hall effect semiconductor sensor, and it sounds like you just had bad luck with two of them. I can easily see how your results would sour you on the product or concept. Mine has been in for five years. Once installed, it allowed us to determine that I too, had an intermittent misfire at about 2500rpm--but experts determined that to be a lean midrange mixture cured by internal adjustment of the fuel pump. Once that was done, all was well.
My experience with the Crane was great. However unbeknownst to me it was installed incorrectly. The mechanic had chosen the wrong size (too large) a shutter wheel; this wheel interfered with the pivot pin that is swaged into the breaker plate inside the distributor. As this was no longer needed, he yanked the %$#@ thing out! This rendered the distributor impossible to convert back to a points model, as without the pivot pin you cannot install points! I did not know this, as the unit ran fine for five years. Then, for no reason I can think of, the wires required by the Crane that run inside the distributor decided to leave their comfy positioning, rise up to the shutter wheel, and when they contact the shutter wheel, it stops turning and the car dies. This was a maddening problem to have as it was intermittent and the only way I discovered this was some scuffing on the insulation. That's when I removed it, sold the unit, and bought a Pertronix.
Thankfully I had a good friend here with a prototype shop. He machined a new pivot pin and swaged it on the breaker plate, and the new assembly was sent out for rebuilding. So the damage done by the first mechanic was undone. In my distributor rebuilding there were a few worn parts that were replaced...
The ultimate is the 123 that a lot of people swear by. I know this is a good unit, but I'm a bit put off by a company with no address (that they'll admit to) and one that states they don't want to answer emails...
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Michael, your Pertronix being in for 5 years means something. Yes it did sour my palate. I have a different Pertronx kit installed in my 1936 Flathead V8 with no problems at all. I Just got to the point enough is enough. Btw, what did you adjust on your IP to get rid of the lean misfire at 2500 rpm. The Black and White partial load screws perhaps?
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The ultimate is the 123 that a lot of people swear by. I know this is a good unit, but I'm a bit put off by a company with no address (that they'll admit to) and one that states they don't want to answer emails...
Mike, funnily enough the company is Dutch, and based in the industrial park that I have my company in. It is about 100 yards from my office. I'll go and visit them one lunch time and recommend that they publish their location... and answer mails. The company name is albertronic... on their website http://www.albertronic.com:
Albertronic B.V.
Zuidbaan 510
NL 2841 MD Moordrecht
the Netherlands
fax: +31(0)182611412
products : 123ignition.nl
Peter
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Amazon delivered the CRANE 3000 yesterday. Cant wait to install it. What I like about this unit is it no longer needs a ballast resistor and it has an optical trigger. Im looking forward to installing it in the next few days. I have a peteronix in my 71 Buick Riv ;runs great but Looking forward to trying out the CRANE unit. the transistor part of it is pretty small . I will be able to install it in the same location as the old benz transitor unit (under the battery) so it wont look out of place.
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Peter--I know the company is Dutch. I didn't know they were so close to you! There isn't an address or phone number on the Dutch website, and in the FAQs, if one reads them (in English) an interpretation can be "We make fine products, but don't bother us; everything you need to know is on the website so don't bother to contact us". The American distributor website is just one step better--they provide a phone number in the Cleveland area, but no names, no address.
Normally those would be red flags for me to never do business with a firm like this. Other potential customers might not be so accommodating, particularly if they don't have the benefit of our tight-knit group here. However, in this case their product is well known, highly respected, and there are enough people here to help me out if I run into an issue...so I would let these "anonymity" transgressions go. But I don't need a 123--yet. ;)
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Hi,
I'am using the 123ignition since more than 6 years and I'am very satisfied and had no problems at all.
Here you can find more info about the product and they will answer your questions: http://www.brits-n-pieces.com/product-detail/distributor-mercedes-220-300-adenauer-300sl-w198.aspx.
...WRe
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Regarding 123.
I have direct experience with 123 ignition through the USA distribution company, 123ignitionusa. Yes, his company sells other products mainly for British cars. Ed is very available on the phone and will try and answer what he knows --- he knows more about British Cars than Mercedes and when I had an issue, he immediately connected me via email to someone very familiar with 123 units who walked through each issue and possible causes. This was for my 250sl.
Granted, you might pay a little more buying from this USA vendor, but well worth the service he provided --- including taking the unit back with full refund, without any issue at all since we discovered my problems were due to another issue --- I later purchased another 123 from him for the 280 and was glad to pay a little more due to being treated right the first time.
Pinder, looks like Crane discussion got derailed.
Best,
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Completed the CRANE 3000 installation. The installation was pretty straight forward. A bit fiddly installing the optical trigger. Car runs pretty well. A lot more relaible and I think my intermittent no start / spark is now resolved.
I am now onto doing the throttle body modification to use the lower port for vacuum direct to distributor. I have the 69 throttle body to compare too for hole location. Looks like both throttle bodies for a 1970 and 1969 are the same except different ports are blocked off / not drilled fully. the location of the lower port is sligts offset to the left of the center line and just behind the throttle valve. Looks like i have to be very precise.
Any idea the size of drill bit to use? looks pretty small.
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Ok I determined the hole size is 1/16th inc. Drilled it out . It drills easily but placement of exact position took a while. I have tested it and it now has vacuum at idle and none after that. The car is running nicely and I have idle timing at 3 ATDC and around 30 at 3000 rpm. This is with the 3000 crane unit installed. seems to be running reliably. I still have to clean up the wires and properly mount it under battery tray but I know its working now. Also I want to replace my old coil with a hotter one. Right now I have the blue coil and its around 46 years old. I dont know how this compares to the 123 unit but its a lot more friendly on the pocket. Its also out of the way when mounted under battery so at first glance everything looks stock.