Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: mbazinet on July 05, 2016, 03:47:16
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Hi folks over the weekend I did some major upgrading to my 66 230SL, I have the Bosch 51 type distributor, I installed the Pentronix electronic module and as recommended I also purchased the upgraded coil. At the same time I changed the Cap / rotor /plugs / and (6) new Bosch fuel injectors.
The new system calls to leave the stock Ballast Resistor in place, everything installed, car starts & idles "OK" not great but working on that, but now under acceleration just trying to get out of the driveway the engine stumbles and sputters badly. Under no load it revs fine / under load its un-driveable.
What did I mess up ? For added fun, it looks like the last mechanic when overhauling the engine failed to install the ignition timing reference pointer, so I am working a bit blind as far as getting the timing spot on. I have the timing set to achieve the best idle possible. I am sure I have done something very silly.
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As you changed out the injectors, perhaps there's air in the fuel lines? I recall advice being given to crack the lines open by the injector to see if fuel is flowing properly/allow air out. That's the only thing I can think of, given what you did. Would be good to get that pointer back onto the engine block.
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Whch upgraded coil did you purchase? They need to be matched with the appropriate balast resistor to function properly. You may want to temporarily re-install the old coil to see if the issue goes away. Same with the plugs. They should be non resistive type.
One other thing I have seen is after replacing fuel injectors, the engine runs extremely lean. Possible the injection pump was adjusted at some point to compensate for a rich condition because of leaking injectors.
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Thank you very much for the help I will give these items a try
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Regarding the coil this is what I installed: PerTronix 40511 Flame-Thrower 40,000 Volt 3.0 ohm Coil
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No ballast required with 3 ohm coil.
It is important that the module sees full battery Voltage @ coil + terminal.
A Dalton
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MBA,
You asked what you might have messed up. Well, it's water under the bridge now, but it's generally inadvisable to change so many essential and integral parts of two major systems (fuel and ignition) at the same time. You might end up with, well, what you ended up with.
Winding back the clock, it might have been preferable to first change the cap/and rotor, and ensure they are working fine. Then, go and install the Pertronix (not Pentronix, by the way) system and coil. When you've got that all running, then do the injectors.
When so many things are changed at once, you run a severe risk of having multiple problems simultaneously.
By the way, I installed the Pertronix 1864LA along with the Flamethrower II coil about 5 years ago (051 distributor)--it runs quite well. Idle is as smooth as silk, strong pulling, overall excellent performance. As A. Dalton points out, there's no need for the resistor here. I left mine in place however and simply use one side of the resistor as a tie point.
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MDS, thank you for the advise and frank words yes I did go a bit far too fast and stepped into it ! I will work my way backwards starting with the ignition system then if required move on to the fueling. These cars are truly a mechanical marvel and need to be treated with care and well thought out mechanical procedures . I guess I got a bit "hammer fisted" too used to wrenching on Chevys !
This is a great forum and members have been wonderful with information great to be a member !
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I corrected the subject Pertronix
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Start with taking the balast resistor out of the circuit. Quickest easiest. As Michael stated use one side of it to tie your wires together on the terminal.
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If all is OK with power to the Pertronix you may have miss-installed a couple of spark plug wires. Other than that incorrect ignition timing would cause what you are experiencing. Try twisting the distributor a bit counter clockwise and see if that helps? If it does you may have to figure out a pointer to accurately time the engine.
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I am reading about everyone having replaced their coil when they replaced their points with the Pertronix system.
I changed 5 years ago but kept my original coil.
Question: Should I have replaced the coil also?
Frank
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I know some may not want to hear this but the Pertronix itself could be bad. I went through 2 new ones. Both with different issues. The first one didn't work at all and the second one gave a similar intermittent issue as the OP. I suspected the magnet was weak or the internal contacts were bad. Gave up and reinstalled the points. Then later installed a Crane system. No problems ever since.
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.../...the Pertronix.../...I went through 2 new ones. Both with different issues...
I had similar experiences. Gave up on that product (some 10 years back). Now, I myself (and most M-B friends here) install only 123 ignition distributors.
The 6RV is the type for Mercedes sixes of the 1960's. See for instance http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22988.msg164515#msg164515 (http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22988.msg164515#msg164515)
/Hans S
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Hi guys did some investigative work tonight, I tried repeatedly to fine tune the idle as we all have known from my last postings, tonight I tested the CSV and behold it leaks ! So I ordered a new solenoid and gasket set. My question is can order a replacement spring and valve seat ?
I am Looking forward to see how things act upon the reinstall. All signs pointed to very rich mixture.
Now I should be able to bring the system into spec.
i will keep you up to date on progress. Please advise on the seat and spring options.
Thanks !
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Mbazinet, replacing the csv solenoid will NOT fix the internal leak. The needle,seat, and spring repair kit for inside the valve is NLA. You can take it apart and clean the surfaces. Then the needle and seat can be lapped together with lapping compound or rouge. Usually works well unless there is a lot of corrosion.
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Thank you for that, I currently have the parts (minus the solenoid) soaking in Carb Cleaner
(dip type) i'll see how it looks, if its still bad I will send it out to H&R for rebuild
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I am very happy to report that after re-lapping the needle and seat surfaces of the CSV I was able to restore a good seal (prior to this fuel was pouring out)
The car runs perfect and after a few small idle adjustments i am very happy. Now is the time to change the oil and get rid of the fuel contaminated engine oil.
Thanks for the help and suggestions.