Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: sl600sl560 on January 19, 2017, 17:53:07
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I've always used Mobil 1 for my newer MB engines. I have two 250SLs.......both Papyrus White and sticks(1 blue int/top and 1 black).
The technical manual recommends Mobil1 15-50 with additional ZDDP
1. Is this the current favorite??? 0-40 is the favorite for newer engines
2. What ZDDP level is recommended for the 250 engine??? (15-50 has 1200ppm and 0-40 has 1000ppm)
Thank you in advance, what a great site
Mike
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Hi Mike
Up until last year, I was also using Mobil 1 15-50 in my 230SL
However, I have switched over to Penrite HPR 30 (20W-60) as it has Zinc content of 1600ppm
Very happy with it (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=1&id_products=4)
Regards
Franjo
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I have generic straight 30 in mine, but will be using VR1 SAE 30 on the next oil change for the added ZDDP when I start driving the car regularly. I already run VR1 in my truck for the same reason, helps reduce wear on flat tappet (non-roller) cam shafts. The reason newer cars run much lighter oils is because their engines have much tighter clearances than older vehicles (machining tolerances are much better than they were 40 years ago) which in tern requires a heavier weight (higher viscosity).
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Thank you for your replies. I decided to go one step further. I researched Redline and Mobil 1......I even emailed Mobil with several questions including the advantages of ester based vs. PAO based stock and clarifications concerning viscosity(0-40 vs 15-50)
I already received a reply.......the Mobil 1 rep is doing further research on a few of the points. I will post the final answers.
Best regards
Mike
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When I started looking at what oil to use, I found there are very opinionated people supporting widely varying products - many passionately.
Here are few things I found in my search: On page 7 of the MB Classic it says Mercedes recommends 20W-50 viscosity
I also found in the W113 oils attachment, info that states 20-50 is too thick and ZDDP additives are bad.
Another document I found has ratings of various oils.
None are consistent.
I chose to go with Valvoline VR1 racing oil
Doug M
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Our engines need zinc additives - modern engines don't. I use 15 W 40 para syn oils suitable for diesel engines. The viscosity is in the right range, the have high zinc content, and they have a good detergent package. This is far more than what was available when our cars were new.
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I've used Valvoline Vr1 20w50 and have been happy with the viscosity and Zinc
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Metric recommends Castrol GTX for their rebuilds.
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Engine oils! seems to be a minefield and so many thoughts etc.
I tend to use 20-50 mineral as here its seen as a "classic" oil. Recently started adding ZINC (ZDDP) to the engine, I believe valvoline vr1 does have enough ZInc already but is expensive here. Heard that too much zinc can also be a problem!
I have a couple of other old pushrod V8 engines, Ford and Chevy and again seems they want ZDDP and 20-50 mineral.
So my thought would be VR1 or classic oil 20-50 plus ZDDP.
Also told ZINC kills catalytic converters so dont add it to new cars. !
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Metric recommends Castrol GTX for their rebuilds.
That's good enough for me. Any word on the weight? I have used GTX full synthetic after the comprehensive rebuild.
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I dont have the car back yet, still at Gernold's. I can't remember exactly on the weight but 15W 40 sounds right.
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I switched from Castrol GTX a few years ago to Shell Rotella T Triple Protection 15W40 as I found out it had a higher content of ZDDP than the Castrol. I just noticed that Shell has replaced this oil with Shell Rotella T4 Triple Protection (still 15W40). This is a modified formulation and they have bumped up the ZDDP to about 1300 ppm with added moly. The tech said it is an ideal oil for prtecting flat tappet engines.
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I'm using a product called Super Syn 15 W 40 that I get from NAPA. I believe it's para syn - likely 50% or less. I use a lighter oil for break in.
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I haven't come across an oil (yet) that exceeds the 1600ppm Zinc content of the Penrite HPR30. This was the major variable that drove me to this brand
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This topic has always bothered me. I know the previous owner used conventional Quaker State 10w-30 in my car for years. Based on many recommendations from this site, I started using Valvoline VR1 20w-50, but longed for Mobil 1 since I use it in all my other cars. I wrote Mobil 1 and they provided the following information, which may have confused me more. I purchased Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w-30 synthetic due to the zinc levels and their recommendation, but haven't used it yet. Sorry for the choppiness of the cut and paste. Hopefully it makes sense without my questions included. I'd also love to hear your opinions.
Mobil guys:<<<<For a pre-1980 era engine, one of our criteria is usually to focus on oils with 1000 parts per million of zinc or better, to take good care of a flat tappet camshaft. We've got several oils that fit this profile. One of the most common viscosity recommendations for that time frame is going to be a 10W-30, but a 5W-30 would offer a little better protection during a cold start up.
Everything in the Mobil 1 High Mileage line has been specifically designed with a zinc content of 1100ppm. They are also designed to help clean sludge deposits that might impede flow through small oil passages. Finally, if you're running vintage style seals and gaskets, Mobil 1 High Mileage has seal conditioners that can help prevent leaks.
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-high-mileage
For most of these motors, for normal street use, we can go with a 30 weight at operating temperature. If you are in a hotter part of the country, I might recommend a 40. Likewise, if you're going to hotrod this car, or have done a rebuild that is little more "aggressive" than stock, we might still lean towards a 40. If we need to handle extra heat, my Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 is a great alternative, with a zinc content of 1250ppm. It's been API rated for gas engines as well as diesel.
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-turbo-diesel-truck#5W-40
Thank you for choosing Mobil,
If the car runs hot enough for a 50, the Mobil 1 15W-50 is definitely an option. It also has our highest zinc content (1300 ppm) without jumping into a "track use only" racing oil. I have, however, seen cases of customers running a 50 in an engine better suited to a 30, with poor results. If you're not generating enough heat to justify a 50, your engine has to work harder circulating a heavier oil. In extreme cases, you can wind up pumping oil to the top end of the motor faster than it can drain back out. If you try the 15W-50, I would keep an eye out for oil coming out of a valve cover overflow. If that starts to occur, I would recommend stepping back down to a 40.
On the rebuilt engines or those with a new set of heads, we're still going to recommend an elevated zinc level if you're staying with a vintage style flat tappet cam shaft. If a rebuild involves an upgrade to a roller cam, we can look at dialing back the zinc content a little.
Thank you for choosing Mobil, >>>>
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If the car runs hot enough for a 50, the Mobil 1 15W-50 is definitely an option. It also has our highest zinc content (1300 ppm) without jumping into a "track use only" racing oil...If you're not generating enough heat to justify a 50, your engine has to work harder circulating a heavier oil. In extreme cases, you can wind up pumping oil to the top end of the motor faster than it can drain back out. If you try the 15W-50, I would keep an eye out for oil coming out of a valve cover overflow. If that starts to occur, I would recommend stepping back down to a 40.
I've been using Mobil1 in various grades since the engine was rebuilt about 20K miles and 15 years ago. The past few years has been with the 15W-50 since the Zinc levels became a known issue. I don't know what "hot enough" means, but I think we have a hot [temperature] running car...but compared to what?
Typically the 15W-50 isn't stocked as religiously as the more common grades used on modern cars. When I needed a quart last year for top-off, a local auto parts chain had a few...at $8 per quart. Thanks to Alfred Esser, he advised looking at WalMart during the sales, and for some reason they stock the 5 quart jugs of it and it was in the $25 range, much better than "by the quart". Now, when I buy it, its two jugs at a time.
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i use this
https://www.kroon-oil.com/nl/catalogus/product/106/bi-turbo-15w-40/7/
its euhhhh oil , and it lubricate , and it becomes dirty like al the other oils , and its available everywhere and cheap ;D ;D
and al my oldtimers are purring like happy kittens whit this oil , i just change it every jear ( because its so cheap ) ::)
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I've been using Mobil1 in various grades since the engine was rebuilt about 20K miles and 15 years ago. The past few years has been with the 15W-50 since the Zinc levels became a known issue. I don't know what "hot enough" means, but I think we have a hot [temperature] running car...but compared to what?
Typically the 15W-50 isn't stocked as religiously as the more common grades used on modern cars. When I needed a quart last year for top-off, a local auto parts chain had a few...at $8 per quart. Thanks to Alfred Esser, he advised looking at WalMart during the sales, and for some reason they stock the 5 quart jugs of it and it was in the $25 range, much better than "by the quart". Now, when I buy it, its two jugs at a time.
Hot enough isn't about coolant temperature, it's about oil temp. A good oil temp is about 180 to 220 degrees F and our cars will attain 180 - 190 F after about 1/2 hour of driving depending on ambient air temps. Coolant temps rise much more quickly and can be full in 5 - 10 minutes.
One thing no one mentioned is engine break in. I use a zinc additive for the first 500 miles when wear is at its highest level.