Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: ja17 on May 26, 2003, 07:26:48
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Hello group,
I am starting this thread for those attending the Tech Session as well as those who are not. If there are certain subject matters which you may especially want documented and covered at the event please post here. We will try to accomodate you. In addition those travelling can inform the group of their plans in case they may want to caravan with others to Blacklick, Ohio. I will also post information on this thread for the events topics, attendees and other specifics. Stay tuned!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Joe,
I had not planned to attend (because I couldn't find the time to drive from the San Francisco area), but have decided I can't stand to miss all the fun, and will fly in instead. I was going to email you with two questions that I need in order to complete my travel plans, but they'd probably be of interest to the group in general:
1. What time do you expect things to "kick off" on Saturday morning?
2. Where do you recommend staying that's convenient to your place?
Thanks for the info; I'm really looking forward to this.
-David Pease
'66 French 230SL
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David:
Joe may be busy with planning for the Tech session so I will try to answer your questions...the session will kick off about 9:30 a.m. Saturday and may go on into the evening depending on how things go, same for Sunday...
Several of us are staying at the place suggested by Joe which is about 10 minutes drive from the tech session location:
Marriott TownePlace Suites at Columbus Airport, Gahanna Ohio
695 Taylor Road, 614 861 1400... about $100/day for a two bedroom suite, maybe you can share with someone...
If that's full, next door is Marriott Springhill Suites
There are at least four of us from the NY metro area and one from VA so a West Coaster will be most welcome...
Take a look at the Events Forum for some general info on the sessions...
Richard M
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All,
I'm arriving from Sacramento on Continental Fri night at 10:54 and have reserved a car. I'm driving to the Springhill Suites and if anyone is in the airport at that late hour you are welcome to hitch a ride with me.
Dick
1970 280SL
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Joe,
I will be driving up Thursday evening and will stay through Sunday. I am hoping to catch up with Cees and others that may be arriving early.
I think some of the timing basics, linkage adjustments, etc. would benefit alot of the members. Another thought is to take volunteers that are knowledgeable in some area and have "break-out sessions." For example, door rattle fix, hanging an exhaust, removing and installing fuel injection pump, etc. could be going concurrently if there were enough technically oriented participants available.
Been looking forward to this weekend since last year!! Can't wait to visit with you, Mary and everyone that attends.
Best,
Tom
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The Vintage Mercedes-Benz Tech Session will be held on June 7th and 8th, 2003 in Blacklick, Ohio (Columbus area). I expect to get started about 9:30 am. It will be jointly sponsored again this year by the W113 Pagoda SL Group (international) and the Central Ohio Section of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America. Last Year's event drew vintage Mercedes owners from many states and overseas. An article on the event with photos was published in the United Kingdom Mercedes-Benz Club in Great Britain.
This year's Tech Session has been expanded to two days by popular demand and will host a very nice collection of vintage Mercedes-Benz cars and their owners. Cees Klumper, the president of the W113 Pagoda SL Group will travel from the Netherlands again this year for the event. Rodd Masteller founder of the W113 Yahoo site and vice president of The W113 Pagoda SL Group will also be in attendance. The format is "hands on" and informal. The W113 230SL, 250SL, and 280SL will be the main feature, although much information will be relevant to other vintage Mercedes-Benz cars. An automotive detailing expert, Bob Geco (The Star May/June, 1994) will travel from Los Angeles to give a mini seminar on auto detailing. We expect many other experts and suppliers in this field to share information and demonstrate their abilities. Numerous vintage Mercedes engines, transmissions, an other mechanical assemblies will be on hand for dissection and discussion. Owners, enthusiasts and suppliers are welcome. The event is unique and very worthwhile.
What to expect:
This is not a white collar question and answer session. It will be hands on. Expect to get a little dirty if you like. The Blacklick Ohio site is basic, nothing fancy. It is in a rural setting on three acres, with a 1800 sq. ft. shop and an acre of lawn for displaying the cars. In addition there is a nice assortment of vintage Mercedes "donor cars" which will supply the parts for our session. Plan on spending some time outdoors among the Vintage Mercedes and their owners. There will be nice original 113's (never restored), as well as nearly perfect restorations and everything in between. We may begin with a discussion of good basic hand tools, some special tools, etc. No expensive shop equipment or analyzers will be used. Next we may get into basic maintenance, tune-up items, minor repairs, then major repairs. In between all this some other experts will input on their special areas of expertice. There will probably be more than one discusssion groups from time to time. We would also like to have time to do a mini 113 car show and possibly a short scenic lunch or dinner caravan? Bob Geco (detailing mini seminar), and Pete Lesler (almost any W113 subject) and others will be contributing their expertice to the session also.
Some suppliers; Becker (radios) of North America, The Eastwood Company and Bob Geco have already sent in some nice prizes for some lucky attendees!
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How to make hotel reservations and RSVP:
All of the hotels listed below are either studios, single bedroom suites or two bedroom suites. They fill up fast, so you should make your reservation ASAP. You can always cancel if something comes up. Use Mapquest for directions. I included all street addresses and zip codes, so you can get "door to door" driving directions. PLEASE CONTACT THE HOTEL DIRECTLY. Hope to see you there!
Here is a list of the hotels, starting with the first choice:
Townplace Suites By Marriott (best deal)
695 Taylor Road
Gahanna, Ohio 43230
PH: 614 861 1400
Springhill Suites By Marriott (next door to the previous hotel)
665 Taylor Road
Gahanna, Ohio 43230
PH: 614 501 4770
Candlewood Suites (across the Street from the above hotels)
590 Taylor Road
Gahanna, Ohio 43230
PH: 614 863 4033
Holiday Inn Express
Gahanna location
Many Other hotels are located a little further from the tech session.
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the Airport location:
Port Columbus International
4600 International Gateway
Columbus, Ohio 43219
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the Tech Session location:
Blacklick, Ohio is an eastern suburb of Columbus, Ohio. It is five miles east of Port Columbus International Airport. The hotels are about two miles from the airport and about three miles from the tech session.
Joe and Mary Alexander (President: MBCA / Central Ohio Section)
647 Mulberry Street, Box 64 (the address for the Tech Session)
Blacklick, Ohio 43004
Tel. 614-751-8262 / ja17@worldnet.att.net
Please RSVP to Mary and Joe Alexander at the above phone number or email address.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Hello Tom, David, Dick and Richard,
Thanks for the information and suggestions. looking forward to seeing everyone. We should have a nice crowd and a good selection of 113's.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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If other people would like to see these as well, can we cover these items in detail:
- Seat removal & disassembly
- Leather repair & reconditioning
- Repair & replacement of mechanical seat parts
- Replacement of sub-frame mounts
- Replacement of timing chain & upper guide rails
- Replacement of fan belt
- Replacement of springs & shocks
- Replacement of front & rear suspension rubber bushings
Thanks,
Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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Thanks Rodd,
Many of these things are on the agenda already and we will try to hit on the rest also.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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maybe someone could make digital recordings of some of the more popular presentations and burn them to a DVD to be distributed later? Might be of interest to non-attendees, and/or if some discussions are just too popular/crowded to view.
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I agree with Phil:
A video from the Tech Session (together with a copy of the documentation you will give there) would be a great article for the Boutique of our club/group... Please, book one copy/set for me!
Regards,
quote:
Originally posted by pkiefert
maybe someone could make digital recordings of some of the more popular presentations and burn them to a DVD to be distributed later? Might be of interest to non-attendees, and/or if some discussions are just too popular/crowded to view.
Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
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Yeah ! That DVD would be excellent.
I would pay whatever cost for one as there is just no way I'd ever make one of these tech sessions !
Even some digital photo's would be great !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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First, there will be pleanty of digital photos for sure.
Second, the video idea was already thought of. Our President, Cees Klumper, plans to have a video camera at the event. I hope to have one as well, but have not yet acquired one. My goal is to get one that uses the same type of tape as Cees' camera so that editing them together could more easily be achieved. We will let you know if/how this turns out. No promises!
Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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Rodd..
I will also bring DV Camcorder. If no one else has commited to editing the tapes I would be pleased to do that and burn a master DVD.
Dick
Nevada City, CA
1970 280SL
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Dick - if your DV camera is digital, that would probably be best. I am in Columbus right now, rebuilding a 280 SL engine with Joe, and we are videotaping it all in Hi-8 format (4 hours taped so far, and we're not even completely through the teardown yet!). I will edit all the material when we're done, and we will make a video/textbook set out of it for the club's members. But I don't know whether the Hi-8 format converts easily to digital, so if you could tape the tech session, that would be great.
Looking forward to seeing everyone next Saturday - on the Friday evening before the event, we will have some drinks and maybe pizza at Joe's garage for those people coming in early, more to follow on that later.
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Cees,
Wish I was there to see the engine overhaul... the tape will be terrific next best thing.
My edit setup can handle Hi-8, Digital 8, Mini DV and SVHS (not Micro DV).
Dick
Nevada City, CA
1970 280SL
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New additions as 6-5-03
The following is a partial list of people who have indicated that will or probably will attend the June 7th and 8th tech session: This list will grow much larger. Feel free to send me corrections and additions ( ja17@worldnet.att.net ) . Please RSVP if possible but not mandatory. If you would like to attend at last moment please do!
Cees Klumper (280-SL Amsterdam, Netherlands),
Joe Alexander (Blacklick Ohio),
Bob Fellows (280-SL Columbus Ohio)
Fred Ray (280-SL Worthing,Ohio),
Dave Pigg (230-SL, 250-SL, 280-SL Columbus, Ohio)
Rodd Masteller (230-SL Columbus Ohio),
Harry Sizemore (280-SL Columbus,Ohio),
Bill Rader (w 113 SL, Ohio),
Dick Dolan (280-SL, Saint Clairsville, Ohio.)
John Spoff (Columbus, Ohio),
Al Roof (250 SE Columbus, Ohio),
Richard Schmidt (190-SL Byesville, Ohio),
Eddie Carmine (190-SL Columbus Ohio),
Lewis Hopkins 190-SL Blacklick Ohio),
Francis Weng (280-SL Akron Ohio),
Pete Lesler (250-SL, 280-SL Cleveland, Ohio)
Don Czapski (280-SL Cleveland, Ohio),
John Buckingham (190-SL Mansfield, Ohio).
Mark Sampson (280-SL)
Schwartz (190-SL, Marion, Ohio),
Michael Salemi (280-SL Michigan),
Tom Savage ( 113 SL Parkersburg WV.)
Erwin Hanke(280-SL Charlestown, WV.),
Bob Bush (230-SL Louisville Kentucky),
Richard Madison (280-SL New York),
Doug Kim (280-SL New York),
Klaus Drexl (280-SL New Jersey),
Mark Ingino (280-SL Stevensville, MD)
Phil Kiefert (230-SL Silver Springs, Maryland)
Tom Sargeant (280-SL Virginia),
Jw Pancoast (230-SL Eastern Virginia),
Frank Lanier (230-SL Washington DC),
Don Newman (230-SL 5spd Sauk Rapids, Mn.),
Bob Geco (280-SL Los Angeles, Ca),
Dick Mentzer (280-SL, Nevada City, Ca),
David Pease (230-SL, San Francisco, Ca),
Bruce Peterson (1970 280-SL, Chicago, Il),
John Sutter (250-SL Minnesota),
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Hi. I have a coworker who promised to lend me his video camera (Hi-8 tape format) with tripod for the Tech Session.
Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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Rodd,
I will bring 2 Digital camcorders and 1 tripod also.
Dick
Nevada City, CA
280SL
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Photos of 113 engine tear down. Cees Klumper and Joe Alexander in Blacklick, Ohio
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Geez,
when I look at the pic of the Inj Pump I realize my car is in fantastic shape by comparison
and when I look at the knowledgeable guys in the other pic I wish I could be in Blacklick, Ohio with them.
One day guys!
best wishes for Saturday and Sunday
Bob(Brisbane,Australia)
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Yes Bob, looking at that pump makes even my car look good!!!
And how come the two guys are so serious??? Better lighten up when we come-a-visiting :o)
Richard M
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Hello Richard,
Ok, just added a photo onto the previous post, with smiles, even after
7 1/2 hours of uncut video.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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quote:
Ok, just added a photo onto the previous post
Great pics, Joe. Thanks, also jealous of Cees for not being there while this going on! Is he worth what you're paying him, pretty good help, eh? ;-) -JP-
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On the engine rebuild: today the machine shop (Fowler Engine in Columbus, Ohio) received the necessary parts from S&S Imports (Will Samples) in Texas, who shipped overnight: six pistons & rings (2nd oversize), 6 intake and 6 exhaust valves, main and connecting rod bearings (1st oversize), valve guides (full sets of std as well as 1st oversize). All the other required parts will come later this week to Joe's garage. The machine shop called this afternoon that they were doing the head work, so we will have it back tomorrow; we'll probably install one valve assembly during the tech session. I hope to be able to videotape the machining work on the engine block and the crankshaft later this week (and this morning I spent a couple of hours by the kerosene parts cleaner ...)
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Cees,
What was the thickness of the head. Is there enough meat on it to give it a shave? Will you be doing that? (Believe minimum thickness is 84mm)
naj
naj
'Kloines Scheisserle'
65 230SL
68 280SL
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Cees and Joe,
This 4 th. picture looks a lot better. Thaught there was something wrong with the engine.
Keep up the good works
Willy, 230 SL 1967 - 220 SEb 1965
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Naj - we measured the flatness of the head, it seemed quite allright and asked the shop to verify that it did not need to be ground and they confirmed that it was not necessary. It had been done once before, judging from a numbers inscription in the head. Oftentimes shops will do this 'shaving' routinely but it is probably not necessary in most cases. There is only a maximum of 1 mm that can be taken off before the head is useless, so you really don't want to have this done unless absolutely necessary.
The head came back from the shop yesterday, the new valves fit ever so nicely into the new guides. The only play left now is to allow oil to lubricate the assembly! Haven't decided whether to put in synthetic oil yet.
It will be very nice to be putting it all back together. Potential bad news is the camshaft - there is some pitting in one of the lobes, probably from sitting too long in humid conditions. I may put in a euro cam when the engine makes its way back to Amsterdam. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up the block this afternoon from the shop and I promise more smiles in the next photos!
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What a gathering, can't wait to see the visual outputs
Steve in Atlanta
1966 230SL
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Photo of early arrivals in Blacklick. Three very nice 113 showed up Friday evening. Klaus, Tom and Mike with their beautiful 280-SLswith Cees and Bob. In the morning the fun begins.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Cees,
I suggest initially fitting a fine mesh 'running in' filter.
Part # 000 184 4225.
Interested to know what oil you choose.
naj
naj
'Kloines Scheisserle'
65 230SL
68 280SL
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Well, I had a great time! It was great to meet everyone and make some new friends. Here's a partial list of the W113 Group people who were there (I can't remember everyone):
Joe Alexander (& his wife)
Cees Klumper
Rodd Masteller
Doug Kim
Richard Madison
Tom Sargeant
Bob Geco (& his wife)
Pete Lesler
John Olson
John Sutter
Phil Kiefert
Dick Mentzer
Klaus Drexl
Michael Salemi
James Pancoast
David Pease
Erving ?
Mark ?
There were other Group members there as well as several local section MBCA members, but I'm bad with names and can't remember them all. We had 40 names on our attendance sheet!
Many thanks to Joe & Mary Alexander for all their efforts in hosting this event for the second year in a row. Great job!
Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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In reading the email thread on the event, it sounds like there was video being shot and edited...and presumably being sold. Any updates on where things stand...ie: who do I contact to order the bvideo or a timeline? I'm green with envy reading and seeing all the photos from the event. What an incredible opportunity for Pagoda lovers!
Fred Silha
1968 Euro 280SL 4-speed
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Fred,
Dick Mentzer and I tried to tape as much as we could. Dick had a camcorder on a tripod and another to hand hold. I had one to hand hold. Dick is now back in California and has watched some of the tape. He says the audio is not very good because the event was mostly outdoors and the cameras were too far away for much of the audio. He will be doing what he can with all the tapes.
Personally, I would like to at least get a good marketing tool video for the Group. You know, "Here's our Group & here's what we like to do. Please join us!" It would be great if we could get some actual technical or mechanical material to be presented in a good quality manner, but I doubt that will happen. The event was in a garage and outdoors, it's not set up to be recorded, nothing was rehearsed, it was hard to hear, etc., etc. There is just no way for a couple amatures to do a professional job. It will be interesting to see how much good material is on the tapes.
Please do not be in a hurry to receive any taped material, Dick and I are amatures at taping. Dick plays with video as a hobby and will be mixing the tapes as he has time.
P.S. The engine rebuild that Cees and Joe did over the past two weeks was seperate from the Tech Session. That will not be on these tapes.
Thanks,
Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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Here's a link to a group photo of the tech session in the photos folder - the person trying to sneek out of the photo on the far left is Joe Alexander himself; the two people being visually separated by the Mercedes star are board member and California regional representative Bob Geco and his wife Sharon ...
http://index.php?topic=405
white 1969 280 SL
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Tech Session Wrap-Up;
Fifty-Six people attended the session over the two day period. A total of ten very nice and different W113 cars showed up. Many other W113 owners traveled long distances and left the SL's at home due to weather or time considerations. Some additional Vintage
Mercedes SL's and such were displayed also (190-SL's, 450-SLC, 300-SEL 6.3, 250-SE Cabro, 280 W114) . The weather cooperated for the most part. Some early birds (Michael, Tom, Klaus, Bob, Cees) showed up
Friday Night for refreshments and an advance preview.
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Saturday morning was a little damp, but the weather improved as the day went on. A nice display of colorful SL's dotted the green Blacklick landscape.
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Pete Lesler had a good assortment of new and used W113 parts available to purchase. Many owners found some hard to find items as well as maintenance parts in the mix.
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Joe Alexander lead various discussions on hand tools, literature, maintenance and repairs. Participants handled and viewed many W113 parts.
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Bob Gecco (car care professional),Pete Lesler (W113 expert), and John Olson (editor/author) lead discusssions or made presentations also during the two days. Cees Klumper (W113 Pagoda Group International President)gets the long distance award again this year (The Netherlands). Some very nice door prizes were given away during the event. Becker of North America (radios), contributed three newly produced very special W113 speakers and some nice shirts. The Eastwood Company shipped in some of their products along with three gift certificates. Bob Gecco also provided complimentary car care products.
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The two day session attracted a very nice collection of people and cars. The session ended Sunday evening after three W113 cars in attendance, recieved some minor "tweaking".
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Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Its been real hot in Geneva this week and even with a new 75 degree thermostat, the temp needle went into red and past. Just managed to get into a parking lot and left the car to cool for half an hour. Had a hard time starting it and had to leave it to cool for another 30 minutes and then it started and worked just fine. All systems seem to be in order and I would really appreciate any help on how to diagnose. While driving, needle is at 180 and goes quickly to 190 and more when stopped at traffic lights or in a jam but then comes down fast to 180 when the going is good.
I am Clueless and my garage says it could have something to do with the engine block and suggests adding a substance to the radiator liquid to see if it changes color as an indicator. I hope its nothing serious.
Maybe someone at blacklick had a similiar experience?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Ashok
1970 US 280SL Auotomatic A/C Frigiking
athadani@bluewin.ch
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Ashok - I believe you posted your question also elsewhere and replies were made to it, but here's some wisdom from previous Yahoo posts that may solve your problem, and that of others experiencing overheating:
"Most initial overheating problems are caused by air in the water pump housing. There is a vent line at the top of the housing, but this is generally inadequate to ensure that all the air escapes. It is usually necessary to back out one of the hollow screws that fasten this vent line to the water pump housing and head, and wait for coolant to emerge (this can be a risky operation if these screws have been in place for 30+ years)."
and
"MB's like we have are well known for getting air pockets in the cooling system when changing thermostat and coolant. I do not fill the system to max the first time. Leave about a half gallon or so of coolant out. The trapped air has to get out, and if there is a full coolant system, then the air is going to blow out the coolant. Start the car, let it warm up without the radiator cap in place. While the car is warming up monitor the temp gauge and the reservoir. Watch the gauge to make sure the temperature does not go into the red and you can see when the thermostat opens. The temperature drops rapidly. At that point you will see steam coming from the reservoir. When the temp has stabilized, add the remainder of the coolant slowly."
and, finally:
"The part number for the kit to improve engine cooling is 130-586-1220. Last I looked the list price was around $300. The labor to install in a 280 SL engine is listed at 3 hours. This kit is intended for late M130 engines with the thermo time switch mounted at the left rear of the head. Another way to identify would be this engine also has a single solenoid on the fuel injection pump (if it's a US version) and the shorter intake runner assembly with a clear neoprene vacuum hose to the booster. It would be for 1970 and 1971 models with this later engine. The service bulletin that describes this in detail is Advance Service Bulletin number 116 file group 20 dated October 1970. Make certain you have exhausted all other means to provide maintenance to all the other cooling items like radiator, thermostat, engine timing, correct fuel mixture etc before you go to the bother to install this kit. From what I can recall automatic transmission cars with AC are more prone to exhibit the need for this bypass system."
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Pete Lesler gave a talk at the Ohio Tech Session about originality of the W113 cars. Pete showed a couple of video tapes.
Here's a message from Pete:
To all who attended Joe's tech session: I had a great time meeting
you all and hope the information that I shared with you was helpful. I'm looking into making additional copies of the videos I showed
at the tech session. They need a bit of editing, which I will do and I will have duplicated professionally. They are not copywrited so there are no infringements in duplicating them.
If anyone is interested in getting copies, please email me off line so I can an idea how many to run. The larger the interest, the lower the cost will likely be.
Pete Lesler, w113sl@aol.com
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Hello,
If anyone else has any nice digital photos of the tech session, email them to me and I will add the to this string. Eventually I will erase these so as not to use up too much space. Also we can start a new file in the photo section.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
ja17@worldnet.att.net
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Recent photo contributions from the tech session;
from Dick Mentzer;
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Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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(http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/200361804050_tech%20sess%20Micheal%20Salemi%20copy2.jpg)
Thanks for sharing, Dick and Joe. I pasted your photo's URL into a message because I was having trouble seeing the image as an attachment.
Here's another possible caption: "Sure makes a lot of noise. What is it?"
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
#018260
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Here's a similar photo from my snapshots. My preferred caption would be:
If Mr.Clean drove a Pagoda, this would be it.
(http://home.nyc.rr.com/mrdjsk/select1.JPG)
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
#018260