Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Electrical and Instruments => Topic started by: acbrock on May 06, 2024, 19:49:06
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I fired the car up today planning a test drive and I am suddenly getting a buzzing from the Turn Signal Relay. Is that the relay going bad or have I pinched a wire somewhere?
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Ok to add some insult to Injury. Fixed a leak I had so I fired her up to let her run for a little while. I did not do anything to the electrical but remove that Relay so it would stop buzzing. When I start the Blue High Beam light is on. Won't go off. One the blinkers on the instrument panel is lit up. I assume this is just because I pulled the relay but.... the new problem. when I went to turn the car off... It would not turn off. Unplugged the battery and tried again nothing. Turn the key all the way to right like I was starting it, and it turned off. Could pulling the relay out cause all these new issues? Tomorrow if I am going to get under and take a look and see if I have any wires pinched or something. Was really hoping for a drive today. Hopefully tomorrow.
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Hey so when I get back into this tomorrow is there a quick safe way to turn the car off if the key won’t do it?
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Hello, don't disconnect the battery with the engine running, probably best to remove fuse 4, to stop the fuel pump, and then wait until the engine dies, and then disconnect the battery
I can't see why unplugging the turn signal relay would cause any issues, perhaps you have a problem with the ignition switch, have you removed that, or carried out any other electrical repairs or replacements?
Just saw a post from you where you had the column switch removed and repaired, are you sure that all went back correctly?
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You can also remove the signal wire to the coil - no spark = end of running.
It sounds like you may have some major electrical grounding issue somewhere, that can cause such inexplicable/unexpected gremlins.
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Ok thanks. I think I got the column switch together. It was when I put it all in a few weeks ago. I did take the light control with all those wire and took each one off and cleaned them. They were covered with that white melted plastic that the whole taking the dash apart a long time ago! I will pull it all out and check all my photos and make sure I put it back in and don’t pinch anything. Fingers crossed.
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So pulled everything apart and put it back together. I took the wheel off too, thinking maybe there is an issue their. The car had a Nardi on it, I bought a Benz wheel that I was going to use while restoring the wood on the Nardi. Thinking maybe they have different connections. But fired her up, starts and stops fine. Ignition switch is good again. Still getting the Blue High Beam Light on and Buzzing from the Blinker Relay. is there a way to test the Relay to see if it is working or bad? I will look around online...
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hmm. maybe I am wrong. I was reading all the tech manual stuff and my relay does not look like any of the relays in the pictures. Is what I have posted here the Flasher Relay?
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That looks like a turn signal relay from a much later car, has it ever worked?
Not being funny, but you do know the high beam light is controlled by the switch in the foot well
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Yea I was clicking the foot button but to be honest it is bright sunny and I am alone so I could not tell if the high beams when on and off. Yes the Flasher/Blinkers did work until this buzzing showed up 2 days ago. So looks like this relay only affects the blinking of the Flashers so I am going to see if I can get some other bulb to flash outside the car.
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ok so set it up with a light on my desk. As soon as I got the last cable connected the light went on and it was Buzzing, but NOT flashing. So I am guessing there is an issue with this Relay.
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Went down to the parts store. I guess I know why in the Tech manual all the pictures are of the Barrel/Flat terminal variety! The Bosch one from the car was findable but about $150 and would have to be shipped the Barrel one is $6! I guess I will see tomorrow if I can get it all to work!
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Relooked at the tech manual. I take that back out the Relay. I guess Bosch just makes a ton of them. I assume this one is not of the same quality so I am going to find a Bosch.
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Originals can still be found if that's what you prefer
https://www.2040-parts.com/mercedes-bosch-turn-signal-relay-new-001-544-39-32-i1080125/
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Cool I think I will try and get it all working with one I just got. But plan to track down an original at some point and replace it.
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Excellent day! Took her down to the beach with my son and then a drive with the wife! Everything is running great but the new issues! Today the gas gage is not registering. Tach is good. Speedo nothing! Blinker issue that hopefully I fix tomorrow. Speedo.. I cannot see the little pin it rests on, it is under it... could it just have gotten jammed on top of it? I am going to get a magnet and see if I can move it. Or take it on the freeway and see if enough speed will pop it off!
So I know electrical is a cray nightmare. A few things. I have a few things unplugged, like the Washer Motor and a few things like that. Are any of these items daisy chained so unplugging one might affect another? Like I realized today after pulling the car out that I did not have the right headlight attached or the right blinker! But attached and still got the buzz from the relay. I am sure this is just a me and the car slowly working thru things...
But great to drop the top and cruise to the beach today. Daughter comes home tomorrow and I promised it would maybe not be "DONE" but drivable! and I consider today a WIN!
PS thanks all the help along the way! This forum has been amazing. Now way I even try and tackle any of this without it.
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So I am working on the wiring. Wired in a new Flasher Relay. When I try them I hear the relay clicking but nothing. When I turn on the headlights the right Blinker light stays on in the dash? The hunt continues.....
So I replaced a piece on my headlight and blew the fuse. I replaced it and went to test the headlight and it works fine. I then noticed the headlight go on with no key in the ignition. Is that the way it should work or do I have a big electrical problem on my hands?
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Head lights are wired directly to the battery so you don't need the ignition switched on. Actually, all power goes through the head light switch first before it goes to the ignition switch.
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ok cool that's good. I guess I will search around the forum and see if anyone has posted a way to check all the electrical connections and I will start trying to find out where I F'd up.
s
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I still think you have a bad ground somewhere, for example one of the lights/turn signals. Do you have a multimeter so you can check the grounds? With the multimeter on 'continuity' (beep) hold one probe to a known good ground, and the other probe to the light armature that should be grounded.
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It is difficult to try to come up with ideas just on a description sometimes….
“When I turn on the headline, the right blinker light stays on”. Maybe I am missing something, but this is the moment I would take a look at the right headlight and right tail lamp…
You have the wiring diagram in the Technical Manual. With that and multimeter you can trace quite a lot, actually.
I do not know how fluent you are in these topics, perhaps it would be good to have a professional electrician look at it. I am getting a little worried that if you have a damage to harness anywhere (and that is why getting some of the strange symptoms), it may get dangerous at some stage. The car electrician does not have to be fluent in classic Mercedes if you show them the diagram.
That is what I would do if I could not figure out some obvious culprits.
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Dear acbrock
Check if your brake fluid reservoir switch keeps the circuit closed all the time. That is a known issue that will cause the car to stay on since it produces a back feed to all T15 circuits if driver door is open at the same time.
Best regards
Lp
Www.wiredoktor.com
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Cool I will read around and play with my multimeter and see if I can find anything. I will try and test all the lights today work my way into the harness. I was watching some videos last night on how to text for ground.
I was looking at the other functions that should be on the Blinker Arm. I tried the wipers and got nothing. I tested the motor at it was fine so might be the arm is screwed up. But I will test a few more things. But at some point I will have to give up so I don't make it worse! But not quite there yet!
When testing stuff.....I knew how to start the Wiper Motor at the motor because I took it out and apart to fix and clean up. But I went to test the next spot which would be the Plug under the dash. Seeing if I could get it to run with the Arm not plugged in to isolate it to the Arm. Hoping would be straight forward but I was wrong.
Looked at the Plug and saw there were more pins than I expected. 2 Wiper Relay (Terminal 56) 4 Wiper Motor 7 Wiper Motor Relay (Terminal 86)
My thought (not knowing any of this)
I would supple 12v to 4/Wiper Motor and then 12v to a relay but there are 2? Do I do both to get the motor to run? Also I would attach to the Ground? Or do I have this all wrong?
Then I was going to try and test continuity on the arm parts... and ground.
Also I wil check that Fluid Reservoir and see if that is causing the car not to turn off. Because after not doing it a bunch of times it did it again yesterday.
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Wiper motor and wiper relay connections and test procedure are on here
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/ChassisBody/Wipers
Luckily you won't have the low brake fluid switch or the door open warning lamp on your 230, so you don't need to worry about them
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Having gone through similar issues a couple of months ago, I know how frustrating electrical issues can be. First, I would follow Cees advice and ensure that all grounds have positive contact with the body where the grounds are secured.
I also needed to learn and understand how the various functions are controlled. For example, the multi-function switch controls the turn signals, wipers, wiper fluid and if connected the flash to pass function. So any problems you have with those functions, such as your turn signal flasher buzzing, will involve the multi-function switch wiring.
I studied the wiring for the center instrument cluster to better understand its functioning. If your fuel gauge is not working or if your high beam light stays on, that is where I would focus my attention.
Like you, I had multiple issues going on and had to isolate each one and work on it separately. As you already know, the tech manual is your friend as is the search function.
Pawell's advice here is also worthy of repeating. The wiring in these cars is over 50 years old and who knows what previous owners have jury rigged to fix this or that. Electrical issues are not my forte but by focusing on one issue at at time, and with help from forum members, I was able to sort out all my issues but I will confess, it was tedious work.
The last lesson I learned that is obvious, but so easy to mess up, is that each electrical connector has male or female pins. These pins are arranged in mirror image. I can't tell you how many times I arranged the pins backwards after taking the conncectors apart. So, if you take the connectors apart, double check that you have the correct pins in correct sockets. I ended up making a diagram each time a took a connector apart and checking that the pins were in the right place - recognizing that the male and female connectors were arranged in mirror image.
I found success by focusing on one issue at a time, researching the tech manual and searching the website.
Stick with it and as you've already discovered, there is lots of help here. Good luck.
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Thanks for the notes. I will get into it and report back!
Many of these things have been very tedious but I am honestly loving the education. I am hoping in the end I will understand and be able to keep this car running on my own.... Then grow the collection!
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Ok so just played around with the Multimeter. Just checking if I am doing this right...
So I took back off the Plug for the Control Arm. I put the Multimeter Ground on the #12 Ground then touch all 11 other plugs. I got the continuity "Beep" on all of them except..3 (Blinker Relay), 5 (Fuse 1) 10 (Turn Signal left) ** But on the Female side there is no plug for 10 so no chance for it there. Should there be something there?
How would I go about sending Power from this Female plug to all the things this arm should control? If I have the Plug unplugged. I have tested both the Washer Pump and Wiper Motor at there location by just adding power to the terminals.
Trying figure out how to send power thru this plug to see if the problem is the Arm side of this plug or Between this Side of the plug and the device...
I have tried a few things but don't seem to understand how this works.
If anyone can explain how to do just one of them I sure I can figure the rest out.
Washer Pump, my brain says add power to Pin #1 but that does not do anything or do I need to connect Pin6(Fuse2). Or should just connecting Pin1 work and there is an issue with the Harness side of my electrical?
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Hello, in the tech manual "steeringcolumnswitch" there is a table of the 12 way connector pins "Testing Individual Switches within the Column Switch"
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/SteeringColumnSwitch
With the battery disconnected, put your ohmeter on the pins shown, and operate the relevant switch on and off, ie pin 1 and pin 6, and push the washer switch, the meter should read 00.0 for as long as the switch is pushed, and then read OL when the switch is released
You only need to do this for all of the set of pins associated with the column switch, pins 11 and 12 are for the horn, not the column switch
If you get the correct readings then, with the battery and ignition on, if you then bridge across these same pins with a short wire, the associated function should operate until you remove the wire, probably a job for two people. Don't bridge across random pins, just short the pins shown on the table, 1 to 6, 3 to 9 etc etc
If you don't get the correct reading, then don't try bridging with wires, as there may be an incorrect connection somewhere, so investigate before going any further
Be careful to get the correct pins, as some of them have a live +ve on them
See how you get on
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BobH got me through figuring hot how my WW park function. If you follow his instructions you will be doing it correctly.
That said, to answer your question, I will tell you how I did it - which I think is a more dangerous way meaning you have to VERY CAREFUL.
Pull up the chart in BobH's post (you will have to scroll down a long way to get to it).
You are speaking of the female connector (on the right just above the chart) so I will assume you unfastened the multi-function switch connector (which is the male connector).
Yes, you should have a female pin in the 10 position.
F Pin 5 goes to fuse 1 which is always live regardless of ignition switch position. If you want to activate the WW washer (F pin 1) you can run a wire from F Pin 5 to F pin 1. Be sure your fuse 1 in the fuse box is not blown and that you have good contact there. I believe that will (should) activate the WW Washer. On mine, I do not yet have the WW washer working so I can't be 100% sure on this, however, you said you tested the washer directly and it work.
So I think you could jumper female pin 5 to any other pin (except F pin 6, 8 or 12) and the user item should get 12v. Note that 12 is a ground so if you connect pin 5 to pin 12, it should blow the fuse.
At some point you should also test the switch (using its male pins) and for that I use the ohm function on the multimeter.
I am concerned that you have no female pin in the 10 position. That suggests that the wires inside the female connector have been messed with so you may have to sort that out.
Attached is a chart that I built when I was working in this area. It may or may not help you.
Keep in mind that you are now messing around with live voltage (think fire) which is why BonH's approach is better. I'm just not a good enough electrician to do it that way.
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Thanks guys! OMG I have looked at the picture of the pins right above the section "Testing Individual Switches within the Column Switch". I cannot believe I did not scroll down! I will give all these things a go today (time permitting Mothers Day) or tomorrow! Fingers crossed I will figure this all out!
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Yes I agree having no 10 Pin is very ODD! I am assuming that would mean my blinkers would not work correctly. I honestly don't remember having any issues with the blinkers. Maybe it worked on the dash and I never realize one side was not blinking out of the car. Seems odd I would not notice but don't know how it would work otherwise. I will dig around and see if I see the cable clipped/hiding or more likely in the wrong position....
Aaron
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Oye. So i am going to go out and try all these again and see if I get the same numbers. (boy I hope not!)
But putting my Multimeter on 200 and going probe to probe mine reads 1 not OL.
But my readings are all out of whack. This was done with the battery disconnected...
Could it be that these are all mixed up in the connector? And I still don't see anything for 10!
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Confused by your readings, perhaps i'm not understanding what you're saying
On the ohms scale, with a probe in each hand, this is open circuit or open loop (OL) no continuity, same as if a wire is broken or a switch is open
When the probes are touched together, this is a short circuit, full continuity, no resistance (00) or perhaps 1, if the probes are not making good contact or the wire you're testing is long
When you test across the pins in the table, OL is when no switch is operated and 00 is when the switch is operated
When you say pin 10 is missing, is it physically not there in the connector? if not where is the black/white wire, is it loose or connected to another pin?
Have a look and reply, before we look any further as it's all a bit confusing at the moment
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I will go look for that wire. But on my Multimeter when I put it to OHM with the probes not touching each other it read "1" when I touch them together it drops to "0".
So for the first one Right Turn Signal. I put 1 Probe on Pin3 and the other Probe on Pin9. It read "1" then when I activated the turn Signal it dropped to 0.3. Then back to 1 when I released the turn Signal. Then I did the rest the same way.
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Wow. Ok. So I found the Black white Wire on the Female Side of the connector. It was in the 12 hole. Which is scary too. Because now there is no Ground! I think I am going to take all the pins out and make sure they are all correct. I think I will try and tackle that tomorrow unless I get a 2nd wind. Then I will test all these wires again. From my last post am I testing them correctly?
Thanks!
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Yep, someone has definately jacked with the wiring. Hopefully, just at that connector.
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Ok so just checked the wires. The male side seems good. Only wire 5 I could not find red but the other 11 are good so I just probably can’t see it.
Now the female side. Should these wires be the same color as the male side? Because they are not. They are very different.
Lots of blue. 1-9 are all different. But not like reorganized like totally different colors. Only 2 that match are 9 and 10 (now that I moved the black white from 12 to 10). So now now 12. But there is a brown going to 7. And 11 has 3 wires connected to it. ?
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Oh dear, looks like quite a challenge, it's turning into more of a job for a professional or an experienced owner, perhaps Cees could take a look if you take him up on his kind offer
All wire colours should match, so you're going to need to trace each wire from the plug to it's destination, using the wiring schematic in the tech manual, i'm assuming either new wires have been spliced in to the old loom, or a new loom has been installed at some time. It's doable, but not easy and could be time consuming, first thing you need is a new meter, as that one is definitely giving incorrect readings, open circuit should read OL, not 1
You'll need to trace continuity by placing one lead on the plug end and the other lead on the destination point, and if it's not where it should be, keep moving the meter lead until you find it, not easy if some are the same or wrong colour
If you're not confident, perhaps time to ask for help, as the consequences of getting it wrong could be disastrous
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The colors of the wires in the female connector do
not match the colors in the male connector. The male connector is part of the VDO multifunction switch and VDO did not try to match colors to the MB scheme.
CORRECTION: I just checked and on my 1970 280SL the wire colors on both the male and female connectors for the multifunction (turn signal) DO match up.
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That is good for the colors not matching. Is there anywhere that shows what the MB colors should be? I will get a new meter and try and trace a few and see if it is possible with my limited knowledge.
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Think I found the info in the wiring section. Going to go grab a wire tracer probe. My multimeter instructions does say it reads “1” not “OL” but I will get another one and test to see if I get the same numbers.
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Wire colors are on the wiring diagram here:
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Restricted/ColorWiringDiagrams?action=download&upname=230sl_2.jpg
Key for components is here:
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/WiringDiagram
The multi-function (turn signal) switch itself is not shown. #29 is the female connector that the multie-function switch plugs into.
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So grabbed a Tracer. Not very helpful yet but hopefully I will help with some of the wires. So I popped all the wires out (pic attached). That is the order they were in the connector too. First thought was if I turn on the power 3 of these should have 12v going thru them (Correct?). 5 6 and 8. Figured if I could figure those out first that would start to knock them out.
So I got Power on 3 of them. From the connector numbering it would be 1,2 &9. Also the colors are not matching the Wiring Diagram so I assume this is someone handy work.
I am going to work on getting a camera up to the back the fuse box to see if I can see what wires are attached to 1,2 and 10.
The one on the top right is White/Violet which should be Slot 8 for Fuse 10 and High Beam. Bonkers.
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Just took a ton of pictures of the fuse panel. I will see if I can figure out the wires. But looking at it.... If I just take the screws out of the front will this just drop down so I could get a close look at it? or is connect to a bunch of things that will stop it from dropping down easily? Going to give that a try after lunch....
Also this is the Box. Is this normal the big rats nest of wires or is this probably where all my problems started? 99% the 2 red wires taped go to Fog Lights on the Bumper. Lose reds near the box or for modern radio that was in the car when I bought it.
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So grabbed a Tracer. Not very helpful yet but hopefully I will help with some of the wires. So I popped all the wires out (pic attached). That is the order they were in the connector too. First thought was if I turn on the power 3 of these should have 12v going thru them (Correct?). 5 6 and 8. Figured if I could figure those out first that would start to knock them out.
So I got Power on 3 of them. From the connector numbering it would be 1,2 &9. Also the colors are not matching the Wiring Diagram so I assume this is someone handy work.
I am going to work on getting a camera up to the back the fuse box to see if I can see what wires are attached to 1,2 and 10.
The one on the top right is White/Violet which should be Slot 8 for Fuse 10 and High Beam. Bonkers.
Not sure you should have +ve on 3 pins, yes on pins 5 & 6, but i can't see why you'd have +ve on pin 8? From what i can make out, pin 8 will only have +ve when the flasher switch is operated, which would switch +ve from fuse 1 to fuse 10 onto the high beams. Are you sure you have power on pin 8 permanently?
I am getting more and more concerned, turning power on with loose wires, and not knowing where wires terminate, could end in tears. I would strongly recommend you only use the tester with power off until you've sussed this out
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Yes sorry. I got power to 8 when I turned on the lights. When the power is on I had some electrical tape between everything so I don’t burn it down and kill all work I have done.
I will make my next report once I get the fuse box lowered.
A
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"If I just take the screws out of the front will this just drop down" Yes, remove the two screws in the engine compartment and the fuse box should come free.
I don't recognize those color wires at all. Thats a lot of blue that for sure is not original.
Agree with everything BobH added.
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Boy o Boy. Ok so I dropped the Fuse box. Then to make life harder on myself I decided to take it out and clean it. My thought was I could disconnect all the wires then I could easily trace each wire from the plug to the Fuse Box or at least the 3 that go there. Figured Continuity would make it easy. But I seem to get continuity on lots of the wire. I guess because they go thru so many relays and or something. But that was no go. Then the Tracer. That is worthless. I thought it would be wire specific but you get the prob near all the wires and it starts singing.
Anyone have a good way I can figure out these wires. Hope was to connect something to Fuse 1 on the Box and then somehow see which wire it activates in the plug. Or should I go around and unplug everything all the relays and connectors and try the continuity again?
Also side question. I know I would have no Blinkers. But is it ok to drive the car with this specific connector not connected? No wipers no blinkers? Maybe I will consider unwrapping as much of this specific cable I can and see if I can find where they spliced together so I can see what color is on the other end of all these blue wires.
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My other thought is this.... Wracking my brain with all the things that have gone on here. From the very beginning Cees had this pegged as a bad ground somewhere. What I have realized now for 99% Certain is the the Blinker female plug was in 12 and when I move that to 11 There is not ground! So maybe I put it back together how it was... Putting the blink to 11 and adding in a Ground. Maybe that will solve it all? If not I start unwrapping....
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My other thought is this.... Wracking my brain with all the things that have gone on here. From the very beginning Cees had this pegged as a bad ground somewhere. What I have realized now for 99% Certain is the the Blinker female plug was in 12 and when I move that to 11 There is not ground! So maybe I put it back together how it was... Putting the blink to 11 and adding in a Ground. Maybe that will solve it all? If not I start unwrapping....
The ground on pin 12 is for the horn, are the horns working? You can test with your ohmmeter if there is ground on that wire, obviously should be a brown wire. Checked on line, and some meters do read "1" when open circuit, never come across that before, may be a US thing, so your meter looks like it may be working ok
I would still use your ohmmeter, with the car battery disconnected, from the female socket pins, one at a time, to the destination of that wire, according to the schematic. It should read 0.00 or a few ohms at most. If you get a correct reading you can tick that off and move on. It obviously makes it difficult if you have several wires of the same colour, so perhaps test and rule out the coloured wires first. Make a list and post it on here for us to see
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ah 12 is just the Horn Ground. Ok so I will test that but I do not have horns. Noticed that about 6 months ago. I will try and trace the wire that was in 12 which is black/white which from the schematic should be the Turn Signal. If I can get that to work I wills start from there and work around the plug.
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I suggest narrowing your focus.
1. Disconnect your battery
2. Restore the fuse box to its original position
3. Focus on the wires in the female connector for the multi-function switch
a. make a blank chart like the one below
b. if you havent already done so make yourself a six foot wire with alligator clips on the ends
c. clip one end of that wire to one of the end users in the chart below and bring the other end into the cabin
d. using your ohmmeter connect one lead of the ohm meter to the alligator clip and probe each wire with the other lead
e. when you have a match, wrap a piece of tape around the wire and identify that wire's end user (use same pin # and
description as the chart and enter it into your chart)
f. remove the alligator clip from that end user and clip it to a different end user and repeat.
This is essentially what BobH suggests. When you have all 12 wires and their end users identified post it here.
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I will get the fuse box all worked out and cleaned and then start this process. Thanks for all the notes!
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Oof. What a day. My knees and back are killing me. So I Put the Fuse Box back together and Put all the Female pins back in Connector so nothing is "Dangling". I then began the testing. I used a new Multimeter which I think is more accurate....
So I started testing things. I think the theory here is that if I connect to line to 1 end, say the Plug on the Wiper Relay (Assuming that is the big one near the wiper motor) Then run that line into the cockpit and connect one of the probes to the end of the line. Then with the other Probe touch all 12 female ports 1 at a time... One of them should go to 0.00 and that is the Correct Pin for that device.
If that is not correct then the rest is not correct so no need to keep reading! :). So while doing this I got readings on lots of the female pins, some low some OL but for the Relay I got 0.00 only on Pin4. I got a few different 0.00 checking all the pins on the Headlight Connector inside the headlight.
Pin1. 0.00 on Wiper Motor
Pin2.
Pin3.
Pin4. 0.00 on Wiper Relay
Pin5
Pin6. 0.00 on Drivers Side Headlight Plug in the Top Pin on the side with 3. But I got 0.00 on other pins on the connector...
Pin7. 0.00 on Wiper Washer Motor Also 0.00 on Drivers Side Headlight Plug in the Top Pin on the 3.
Pin8
Pin9 0.00 on Drivers Side Headlight plug on the Bottom Pin on the side with 2 pins.
Pin10
Pin11
Pin12. 0.00 on Drivers Side Headlight plug on the Top Pin on the side with 2 pins.
Does not seem correct?
I attached the battery to see if connector got power. First thing I noticed is that in Position 2 on the ignition I did not get any noise. The car does start but no buzzing. The Headlights worked but I think maybe I lost power to something. I am going to quit before I do something stupid. I will recheck everything later or in the morning and see if there is something I forgot to connect.
Pic is of the setting I using to get to 0.00.
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I use an old analog ohm meter so BobH is going to have to weigh in on your meter readings.
The wiper motor relay is on the driver side of engine compartment (assuming a USA vehicle) and is not near the wiper motor. On the left side of the engine bay just forward of the windshield washer motor and nest to the power brake brake booster you should see 3 relays in a row. The larger of the three is the ww relay. It has a 6 pin female connector.
I guess 00 reading means no resistance (meaning full continuity). Let me take a longer look at your readings.
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Haha. So one of the wires I thought I found is wrong! So what is the big relay on the right side near the wiper motor.
I know it seems crazy but I actually get relieved when I have done it wrong! That way I can fix my process learn a little more and hopefully the car is not is as bad shape as I thought the day before.
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You wrote "I think the theory here is that if I connect to line to 1 end, say the Plug on the Wiper Relay (Assuming that is the big one near the wiper motor) Then run that line into the cockpit and connect one of the probes to the end of the line. Then with the other Probe touch all 12 female ports 1 at a time... One of them should go to 0.00 and that is the Correct Pin for that device."
CORRECT. But you also need to identify the specific pin. For example, if you look back at the chart, pin 2 (of the female connector for the multi function swith - aka turn signal switch) should have continuity with the pin in the ww relay connector that goes to terminal 56 on the ww relay. So, one end of your line should attach to the correct female pin on the connector for the relay that attaches to terminal 56 on the relay. Then probe as you described above each of the 12 female pins in the multi function switch connector until you find continuity.
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On my car, and I think most, the only big thing that looks like a relay is the voltage regulator. There also may be a fuse box on a bracket but thats for the radio and antenna.
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Ok cool thanks. Ah lightbulb just went off. 56 will be those numbers in the relays. Excellent. I will find that one first! One at a time I will get them!
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Ok so ran out and wanted to check this stuff out. So I have 3 relays... First is round 3 Pin, 2nd is Rectangle 5 Pins, 3rd is rectangle 4 Pins. The middle one, the middle pin is 56. So I attached it and ran the meter. One of them got really low 0.01. So I am going to check it again in the AM.
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Some of these wires will be split and go to several different destinations, ie the blinker/turn signal wire will split (somewhere) and feed the front blinker, rear blinker and cluster blinker light, so you'll read 00 at various different locations. Likewise, pin 4 on the wiper motor, is fed from fuse 2, so this will be common to the wire that should terminate at pin 6 on the connector, so you are going to get some misleading readings
If you concentrate on the wires that have a single destination first, ie wire from pin 1 to the washer pump, once confirmed tick that one off. Wire from pin 2 to wiper relay pin 56, tick that one off. Should mention that all relays or connectors should be unplugged, or else you'll read through relay coils or lamp filaments and this will give a false reading
Unfortunately, because your loom colours don't match the male connector, and the original MB colours, all of the wires on fuse 1 and 2 will need to be unsoldered, or else you'll get a reading on any of these common wires whatever they feed, unless you can match a wire colour, but it looks like you have several of one colour, madness of whoever did this to your wiring
Many ohmeters have a 200 ohm scale, that's what i would use, but i can't see that on your meter, unless it's the symbol next to the 2K, what do the instructions say? 2K is ok, but not as accurate as 200 ohms when measuring for continuity
Carry on, i'm sure you'll get there, just need to be very methodical, and make exact notes, ie colour of the wire, pin number at connector and pin number at destination, or else you'll just confuse yourself
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Awesome thanks for the notes. I will take this Meter back and get one with 200. I will see if the selection next to the 2k is 200. It is an audible tone. but may be it is tone and 200. I will figure that out...
You said " Should mention that all relays or connectors should be unplugged, or else you'll read through relay coils or lamp filaments and this will give a false reading"
Do you mean the relay I am testing or all relays should be pulled before I start trying to trace wires.... Or can I just remove the Wiper Relay and the Blinker Relay?
also
" and the original MB colours, all of the wires on fuse 1 and 2 will need to be unsoldered". So should I take the wires off the Fuse Box and unsolder them and then leave them unconnected? Can I leave the rest of the fuse box connected.?
Thanks for the info! I will start on this! Hopefully it gets me to a spot where I can much better isolate all these damn blue wires.
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Hello, sorry, yes, just unplug the relay where the wire should go, so the blinker relay and the wiper motor relay. You'll also need to pull the connectors on the head and tailights when you try and trace the turn signal wires, and they also go to the cluster, i'm not sure where this connection is made, somehow the wire/s will go to the cluster 12 pin connector. It would be interesting to know if the turn signal wire colours are correct at the front and real lights and the cluster, black/green and black/white. The instrument cluster should have the black/green and black/white wires there as well
If you can identify any of your wires on fuses 1 and 2, ie any of those blue wires, or other strange colours that shouldn't be there, then you can just remove those for testing, if you check the schematic, you'll see the other colours, the ones you don't need to touch. Having said that you'll probably end up unsoldering them all, as it will be difficult just removing selected wires
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Ok. Today once I start. I will not stop until I figure out at least 2 of the wires.
Reading thru the tech manual I could not find a good digram of what the head light plug pins go to. Probably for the rear light too. If you know a link.
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The connection pins for the headlights are on here, whether yours is US or European
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/HeadlightAssembly
I can't see a diagram for the tail light connector in the tech manual, but it looks easy enough to work out what the pins are on here
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/TailLights
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Cool thanks. My headlight did not match but I will look again and compare to the rear and I am sure I can figure it out.
Traded from a meter with 200 so hope that helps too
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Just checked again, the connections are for a 71 car, so are probably different for a 230
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Ok played around again today. I think this new Multi Meter is crap. It won't even go to 0.00 when touching the probes together. But I started trying to trace wires. I was coming up empty. So I tried testing some other things. So when I connect the battery Fuse one goes Hot. The are 2 Bunches of wires to on the Front and 1 on the back. So I disconnected the battery and removed all wires from Fuse 2. The front 2 of the fuse had 2 sets of wires attached.Set 1 had 2 Wires, set 2 had 3 Wires. My guess was the 2 Wires were Horn and Cigarette Lighter. The other set of 3 was Washer Relay/Motor and Pump. I grabbed my power inverter and connected the set with 2 Wires. Lighter light up. I dont have horns so could not test the horn. When I put power to the other 3, I got power reading out of the Washer Relay but not the Motor or the Pump. My hope was sending power thru these wires I should have gotten 12v on one of the pins on the connector but I did not.
I did the same thing with Fuse 1. Things worked that should with power, like the Entrance light, map light , clock...
But no power to any pin in the Connector?
Also shouldn't Fuse 2 go Hot when I turn the ignition to the 2nd Position? It did not? I did not want to start the car because of everything loose. Does the car need to be running to Active the 2nd Fuse or do I have another Gremlin to trap and Kill.
I am going to review everything tonight. Probably with some booze and then decide if I need to unwrap a wires and see what I find. Taking the wires off of Fuse one there was a bulge and when I unwrapped a little the was a wire with a connector on it wrapped up and folded backwards. I will test that tomorrow and if I can track down what that is.... Thanks for all the support. This car has been soo much fun... Not so much these last few days.
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A couple of thoughts for you.
I just don't see how your multi-meter isn't giving you something to work with Ohm wise.
Even though you don't have horns, its possible that you still have the wireing where it attached to the horns. You could run the same check you ran to confirm the cigarette lighter on those wires and see if you have power. Seems like you are aware of the danger working with live voltage and being very careful.
I do believe that with ignition in position 2 you should get power at fuse 2. Maybe BobH or someone else can confirm. I think earlier someone may have mentioned that your wiring in the ignition switch may not be working correctly. Under normal conditions, I'm sure the car does not have to be running to get power to fuse 2 with key in position 2. You were wise not to start the car.
If you got power on the relay connector pin that corresponds with terminal 56b on the relay you are making progress. You should get power there from fuse 2. On my car, the connector plug for the ww motor actually has numbers next to the female pins. I get power at pin 4 (the number on the connector - not the motor) directly from fuse 2 when ignition is on.
The little wire that was wrapped up may be part of the disabled "flash to pass" feature. In an undisturbed car that wire was white with red and blue tracers. There are many posts on that which you can find with a search. But I would leave that rabbit hole for later.
I really think you need to find an Ohm meter that works for you. I only resorted to testing with voltage as a last resort and I was really distracted worrying about the consequences.
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As an aside here, since electrics and electronics have always been a weak spot of mine, as evidenced by my difficulty in following the various twists and turns in this thread, I finally decided to 'go back to school' and order two textbooks on 'diagnosis and troubleshooting of automotive electricity and electronics', both authored by a Jim Halderman, 1,400 pages in all. That ought to do it!
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I haven't really investigated the wiring loom on my car, luckily i haven't needed to. Presumably the wiring loom from the 12 way connector, which we've established has been replaced, due to the change of colours, joins to some of the original coloured wires, such as the turn signal wires. Where does this join occur, is it a connector, or is it on the actual appliance, ie the front lights, rear lights, where do we think, has this been investigated? Or do the new colours make the whole journey from the 12 way connector to destination, was the whole car rewired at some point?
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Interesting. Yes I think that wire that is folded back is the color you mentioned. I am going to go return these multimeters and get a new one and different brand today. I will do a few tests that I have been able to confirm and then I am going to peel back some of the wrap at the appliances and at the switch. Hopefully at the appliances the colors will be correct and then I can peel back the wrap on the connector and hopefully get to where these wires were spliced in.... or find that these new blue colors go all the way which would help too.
Today is the day!!!
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...So when I connect the battery Fuse one goes Hot. The are 2 Bunches of wires to on the Front and 1 on the back. So I disconnected the battery and removed all wires from Fuse 2. The front 2 of the fuse had 2 sets of wires attached.Set 1 had 2 Wires, set 2 had 3 Wires. My guess was the 2 Wires were Horn and Cigarette Lighter. The other set of 3 was Washer Relay/Motor and Pump. I grabbed my power inverter and connected the set with 2 Wires. Lighter light up. I dont have horns so could not test the horn. When I put power to the other 3, I got power reading out of the Washer Relay but not the Motor or the Pump. My hope was sending power thru these wires I should have gotten 12v on one of the pins on the connector but I did not.
I did the same thing with Fuse 1. Things worked that should with power, like the Entrance light, map light , clock...
But no power to any pin in the Connector?
Also shouldn't Fuse 2 go Hot when I turn the ignition to the 2nd Position? It did not? ...
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Fuses
Fuse 1 powered at all times
Fuses 2 to 6 are linked together, all get power when the ignition switch is turned to position 1
So you'll need to investigate why fuse 2 is not getting power, i think you said you'd never removed the ignition switch, perhaps time to bite the bullet!
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oof. Ok I guess I will read how to get the ignition out. Seems like it the whole dash is coming out again :(
Initial tests today. When I supply power to the fuse 2 Wires. I get the lighter again but don't see any power in the switch, was hoping to find the Horn Cable. Then switched to the other set of wires...
Relay I get power but not on 56 but 56B?
And still no power to the wiper Motor on Pin4. So I am going to start unwrapping some things...
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On my 280 SL, the ignition switch is two parts: one, the front chrome tumbler part the key goes into, and then plugged into the back of that, the actual electrical switch that the connector plugs onto. My car was beginning to be difficult to start due to the switch starting to fail. I think for around $70 I got a complete new switch and problem solved. The chrome tumbler part did not have to come out, I only needed to remove and replace the electrical switch part at the back of the tumbler. 230's may be different?
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Great on the ignition. Because I think the chrome part needs to be drilled out on my car which is why I never did it...
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https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-0004620693-Replacement-Compatible-Directly/dp/B0CB5MC252
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Folding wire is Red White Blue. So 1 wire is original!
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Relay I get power but not on 56 but 56B?
You are supposed to get power on the plug connector that corresponds to 56b on the ww relay. And power should come from fuse 2. Can you tell where that wire goes to? Fuse 2?
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Lee I will go back in and see if I can trace that wire and see if it goes to 2....
I am gong to dig into this but thought I would post while I needed a break..... So... I started opening up the wires...
I tried to trace all the wires going into my Connector... There were 11 Wires.
This sounds bonkers to me after looking at the Wiring Diagram but I will study it again and see if I can trace all of these on there....
Pin1:Blue/Black goes to Fuse 5
Pin2:Blue/Red goes to Fuse 2
Pin3:Blue/Black (with Pin5) goes to the other plug Mounted up near where the fuse box mounts
Pin4:Blue goes to the the thing I thought initially was the wiper relay near the wiper motor but I think was corrected it is a Voltage Regulator
Pin5:Blue/Green (with Pin3) goes to the other plug Mounted up near where the fuse box mounts
Pin6:White/Blue goes to Fuse9
Pin7:Brown ground
Pin8:Black/Green (with Pin12) Goes to a plug that splits to front and back so assuming these or the original wires and are the blinkers!
Pin9:White/Violet goes to Fuse7
Pin10:No Wire
Pin11:Blue/White (3Wires all Blue/White go into another wire wrap that looks like it heads into behind the instruments and dash
Pin12:Black/White (with Pin8) Goes to a plug that splits to front and back so assuming these or the original wires and are the blinkers!
I logged the wires on the Plugs to the Wiper Motor, Wiper Washer, Front Light plug and rear light plug but I need to sort them out.
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Also... When I first Joined this forum I had just begun and the first issue was the Speed had white goo all over it. I could not figure it out and thru this forum I realized it was the rubber covers for the Speedo and Tach that melted onto all the parts. Could never figure out how that happened. I am guessing now that at some point in the 80s when the original owners son drove the car and put in a modern radio he must have jacked all this up and probably had himself a little electrical fire that melted this rubber caps and force them to replace (poorly) all these wires. Just a guess but might explain this whole mess.
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OMG!OMG! I dont even know how to deal with this. I was just going to delete my account and disappear into the darkness. I am at least a week into this mess. Probably 2. I have ripped everything apart.
I am an IDIOT. I was just sitting here and thought. Maybe I should go check and see if the other connector next to this one is the same size. It is. I have ripped apart the wrong Female connector. Just popped the cap off the other one. Matches all the wires. Wow.
I am soooo sorry I have wasted all of your time! I will banish myself from Posting for a while! What a mess I have created now for probably no reason.
I really dont want to hit "post" on this one.
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Ok last post before I put myself on Suspension. Put it all back together and connect the correct plug to the correct socket and everything works again.
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Hey. what matters is you figured it out! Congrats. We've all overlooked something obvious from time to time, I know I sure have ...
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I will, actually, miss this fascinating and entertaining journey, full of ups and downs and suspense.
Good it is ok now.
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I'm so glad it was something simple and didn't cause something catastrophic, i know you spent time searching, but you've probably learned an awful lot about the car, the wiring and the different parts and how they work together
Is everything now sorted? (apart from the horns)
Go and enjoy driving it!
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LOL becuase it reminds me of ME! You've just joined the club of figuring things out on your own.
No suspension needed. As Cees says, think about all you've learned about your car and its history and maybe a little electrics too.
Any of us who do our own work, except for the pros, have been there done that. Isn't it a relief to have figured it out, which you did.
I say well done!
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I think everything is working now. Blinkers even work, so the Relay I thought was bad is still good too. Now I have 2! I bought one from a guy in San Francisco off eBay. I will get her on the road today and check it all out.
Yes I did learn a TON about the car. Just never going to forget the the "Dumb Chill" that took over my body when I was staring at all 20 papers I have created with diagrams and colors and I thought... Maybe it's the wrong plug. I was 50/50 on what I wanted the answer to be! Well 90/10. I would rather have the car work and admit the crazy mistake.
Still learning something new everyday! Double check the plug was yesterday... What will today bring!