Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Electrical and Instruments => Topic started by: acbrock on May 21, 2024, 18:59:29
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So I am not getting a reading on the fuel gage. This did work months ago. I replaced the fuel sender and it was great. My wiring mess I assume messed it up. I checked all the wires today they seem good. The wires to the plug at 5 & 6 Black Blue and Blue Black I thought maybe were reversed but so I swapped them and still nothing.
I checked the Plug on the fuel send with a MultiMeter. On the G I am getting 12v on the W something like 5 or 6. So power is making it back to the sender. Is there something I could have fried in the actual Fuel gage or should it have blow the fuse first?
My question is... I am trying to see if there is a way to isolate this problem to either the gage or the Fuel sender. With my Power inverter if I send some power from the plug in the trunk that should engage the Fuel gage if the sender is the issue? Question is how would I do that? My guess would be is to send some power down the W Terminal since the G is producing 12v? Or I could do it at the switch and send some power into the 5 or 6 Terminal? Maybe that is safer? Or am I just crazy and need to pull out the Instrument Cluster to diagnose this?
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Or is there a way to test the fuel sender?
I just put my meter on it. So I get NO continuity between the Ground / G or W Pins on the Sender. Only continuity with the Ground Pin and the Copper place holder pin.
When I test from continuity with the wires...
W pin has Continuity with the 4 Pin on the Plug
G pin with the 5 Pin on Plug
Earth Pin to the 6 Pin on the Plug.
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Haha. I was doing more searching and found a great post on the Fuel Sender / Gage. Half way down I saw that I posted in it last summer and went thru all this to determine my sender was bad! So I will reread everything and do all the tests that I guess I did last summer. Hopefully I will figure it out and if the sender went bad I hope MB will replace it.
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So I looks like if I am not getting any my Fuel Sending is OL then it must be shot. I will pull it and see if I can see anything broken, like the last one I had.
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Unfortunately, when you transposed the 12 way connectors, you could have accidently sent 12V+e onto pin 6, which would have sent 12V+e onto the blue/black wire, directly onto the resistor wire in the sender, down to earth, which may have burnt the wire out in the sender. You should get a resistance reading between the ground pin and the W pin, (on the sender, not the connector)
You can still prove the gauge by doing the same test you did in the old post, shorting between ground and W on the female sender connector, at least that will prove the gauge is still good
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Yep so I Put ground to the Blue/Black and got a full tank.
Ground to Blue/Green no light?
So no resistance on the sender. But when I pulled it out and then tested it I got some resistance. Put it back and and nothing. So sounds like I fried the sender. If so I will head down to MB and get another one. Been wanted to go back anyway. Hope they have Pagoda in the lobby. They rotate the cars and a Pagoda must be coming soon.
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So I have a new Fuel Sender. Before I plug it in I wanted to make sure my wires are correct since mine have been moved around!
I am going to double check the colors
Blue/Black goes to the W Pin on Plug to Slot 6 on the 12Slot Connector
Blue/Green goes to the G Pin on Plug to Slot 4 on the 12Slot Connector
But is there a way to confirm that the wires are correct with a MultiMeter?
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I just traced all the wires and it is odd. Pin 4 is Correct on Both Female and Male but Blue/Black and Black/Blue are reverse on both Male and Female. And the wires in the plug are reversed too.
So regardless of Color G -> Pin 4 and W -> Pin 6.
I am going to pull the wires and reverse them so they are in the right slots and then double check it all and then fire it up.
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Ok so I guess the wires were probably reversed Color-wize in the beginning because swapping them took a bit of pulling and tucking to get them to fit. I know there also might be slight differences in all the models of these cars over the years. But I decided to make everything match these diagrams because this is what I will use in the future if I have to pull things out and now they match! So all colors are in the correct spots in both sides of the 12 Pin Connector and in the Plug.
G goes to 4
W goes to 6
5 Not sure where its journey begins or ends, must be picking up power somewhere along the long.
Test 4 and 6 with the wires in the plug to make sure they were still the same with the meter. All good.
When I attach the battery and turn it on...
I get
Nothing at 4 and 6 but 12v at Pin 5.
At the plug I get nothing on G but about 5-6v on (I think on the schematic Pin 5 hooks up with wire 6 somewhere...
Does this all sound about right? Should I plug it in and see if the gage comes to life?
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So I think I have all the wiring correct...
Can anyone confirm the meter readings I am getting from the plug at the Fuel Sender. If these wires are wrong or sending the wrong current will it fry the Fuel Sender again? Nervous I am going to kill it again...
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Just did some more MultiMeter tests....
Tested the Plug Ground to the ground at the Rear Right Light and that is good.
Multimeter test on the new Fuel Sender I get about 47 (200ohm) when I connect the Ground to the G Pin.
When I Jump the W to the Ground with a wire on the Plug the Fuel gage goes Full.
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It's difficult measuring voltage at the sender plug, there's a ground there, but the +ve will be coming through the resistance of the gauge on pin W and through the low fuel lamp on pin G, so won't read the full 12v+e, 5 odd volts may be correct, but not an accurate way of measuring
Your colours are going to the correct pins, they always should have, so a bit worrying if you've had to change them, perhaps you put them on the incorrect pins when you took the connector apart, could that have happened?
Easiest test is as before, link ground to W = gauge should show full
Link ground to G - low fuel lamp should illuminate, if it doesn't perhaps the bulb has blown, might be worth checking before you go any further
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Dear Aaron:
Here attached the position of cables at fuel sender connector
Looking connector from
Behind:
Bottom left = ground feed brown
Top left = blue/black = variable ground signal for fuel meter
Top right = blue/green = fixed ground signal for low fuel bulb
Best regards
L.Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com
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ok thanks. So I think it is all wired right. I am not getting then Reserve light so I will check that bulb if I take it out.
I will see if I can jump the pins on the 12pin connector to see if I can get that Reserve to light up. If not I plan on taking the instruments out so that I can fix the damn speedo anyway. Once I confirm all this I will plug it in and test...
Thanks!
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oh boy. I am confused now. From the diagram below from the tech manual doesn't it show the Blue/Green wire going to the G Pin? And that pin would be under the Ground so where you have Blue Black in your connector?
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ok I will give that a go. I have all the instruments out again so I am going to text the bulbs too. Hopefully I can figure it all out before I put it back in.
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Ok Speedo back in. Testing the Instrument Gage. All lights are now good. One was blown but for the Oil Pressure. Not sure how to test this thing but just went with the OHM. So I tested the 3 areas under the Gas Light. 1 had Continuity with Pin 4 Ground, 2 had continuity with Pin 6 and 3 Had continuity with Pin5 and Pin6 ---0.6 on Pin 5 and 8.0 on Pin 6. I am guessing if I am getting readings then this part of it is ok so I am going to put it back in.
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oh boy. I am confused now. From the diagram below from the tech manual doesn't it show the Blue/Green wire going to the G Pin? And that pin would be under the Ground so where you have Blue Black in your connector?
That drawing is definitely mistaken
Looked for another book with MB wiring diagrams and confirmed that what I posted is correct
Fuel sender terminal
Pin 1= blue/black
Pin 2 = blue/green
Pin 3= ground
Best regards
Eng. Leonardo Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com
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Yikes! But ok! That is how mine was ( I think) and I switched it around to match that diagram on the Tech Site. I will flop things back in the morning. I think that will make my pins fit better in the connector too. Ok so regardless of COLOR...
W ->Goes to Pin 4
G -> Goes to Pin 6
Pin 4 I got no continuity or Ohm on the Instrument cluster when I test the 3 connections below the bulb
The first connection connected to the 3 Pin Ground
The 2nd to Pin 6
The 3rd to Pin 5 and Pin 6 (Pin 5: 0.4ohm Pin 6: 8.0ohm)
Which is reverse of what I have. So if I correct Fingers crossed I get a fuel gage again.
Thanks for all the help on this crazyiness but it seems like I am one instrument away from having it all sorted out!
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Wow crazy to figure this out. I can edit the images and repost them
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Best to get this confirmed before changing the tech manual, every picture i've seen of the 12 way connector is the same, they can't all be wrong!
Need someone experienced to chime in, in case we're missing something
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Dear Bobh
Send to my personal email the pictures you have on hands for the 12 pin female connector for the instrumentation cluster. I will compare with mine
Best regards
Lp
Www.wiredoktor.com
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Funny I got out the manual that came with my car and the wiring diagram does not show colors! So if both of you confirm the wires in the plug I am going to fix those this morning and the wires in the plug then maybe fire it up...
Also to clear up one other thing when I had the Instrument Cluster out. I am not sure where my brain was but the blown Bulb was the reserve light. So that should be good now too...
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Man I have so many pages now with so many options. I think this is correct if I start at the plug and put the wires like Leo's Plug.
W =>Blue / Green => Pin 4 (Fuel Reserve Light)
=> Black / Blue => Pin 5 (Fuel Gauge, +12V from Fuse)
G => Blue / Black => Pin 6 (Fuel Gauge, Fuel Sender)
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Ok so I put all the wires like I posted. Put everything back together. Not the Fuel Sender Yet but when to attach the battery the ground on the battery and it sparked. This is the first time it has done that... Does that mean I have have some wires shorting each other out. Maybe getting pinched in the connector?
Unplugged the connector and tried to connect the battery. Spark and a little smoke as soon as it touched. Oh boy.
I matched all the colors to this diagram and then the plug like Leos on the Sender
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Sounds worrying, is the ignition on when you do this and get a spark?
Swapping the blue/black and blue/green shouldn't cause any problem especially if the sender isn't connected. If the sender is connected, then as i said earlier, the gauge won't work until the tank is empty and the reserve lamp will be on all the time.
As long as black/blue, the +ve feed isn't on the wrong pin. Perhaps you have pinched the wires somehow
I've mailed Leo, lets see what we come up with before you go any further
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opened the connector and it stopped sparking. So I much have pinched something clamping it down.
Joy... so now with it plugged in I am getting no reading of full or the reserve light when jumping 3 to 4 or 3 to 6. So I must have done something when I had the cluster out. So I guess it will have to come out again! But going to take her out and see if she Speedo and tach are good....
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So, i removed my earlier post about the technical manual, it was confusing
The images in the tech manual state that the numbers shown do not match the actual numbers on the male of female connectors, that was confusing me, but then i'm easily confused
The picture on here is clearly correct, the male connector from the cluster. The connections on the female side obviously need to match this
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22075.0
Perhaps post a picture of both sides of your connector before going any further
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Ok so I put all the wires like I posted. Put everything back together. Not the Fuel Sender Yet but when to attach the battery the ground on the battery and it sparked. This is the first time it has done that... Does that mean I have have some wires shorting each other out. Maybe getting pinched in the connector?
Unplugged the connector and tried to connect the battery. Spark and a little smoke as soon as it touched. Oh boy.
I matched all the colors to this diagram and then the plug like Leos on the Sender
So, after consulting with Leo, and drawing the connectors out, using the numbers shown in the tech manual, there are two mistakes
The pins shown as 5 and 6 need to be swapped:
Pin 5 - blue black - gauge
Pin 6 - black blue - +ve supply from fuse
Please note again, these are not the numbers of the actual connectors
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Here is a Pic of the Female side. The male side came out super blurry so I need to retake... I will that up soon.
Thanks for all the help...
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Invert the Blue /black with the Black /blue
Best regards
L.Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com
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The vacant pin isn't used on 230's
If the male connector matches, after swapping the blue/black and black blue, i would try the gauge again by shorting out at the sender. Did you replace the reserve fuel lamp, have you seen that work yet?
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Ok so this the Male Side. So this is right. So I will swap the Blue/Black and Black blue. Then I will try again. I replaced the bulb in the Instrument Cluster for the Reserve but I have not seen it light up yet. I have to take it out again so I will try and find a way to test it on my bench. (It has to come out because when I put the Speedo back in after freeing the needle, I guess I did not get the cable far enough on the speedo. So I am not getting speed and the odometers are not spinning, so I just need to shove it on farther.
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SUCCESS! Flipped that wire and tested. Got the Reserve Fuel light on for the first time in a long while and when I jump plug the Fuel gage went to full. When I plugged into the sender it move up but below the bottom tick. Could just be that I am super low on gas. Would not be a shock if that was the case. I think have about 150 miles on the tank and I am not sure how full it was... So hopefully solved all the problems. Still just need to pull the instruments again so that I can tighten in the Speedo Cable. So off to get some gas!
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Congratulations Aaron
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Outstanding -way to go.
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Full tank! Whahooo!
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That's good news Aaron
I'd like to update the manual with your pictures, for the sake of accuracy, can you please make a couple of changes
The female connector, where one pin is vacant, can you add a note "not used on 230's, on 280's brown/white"
and the two bottom left wires are grey/blue and grey/violet
Same on the male connector
Thanks
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Definitely. I will get those done today!
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So when I got the instruments back out... I was wrong. The Speedo cable was NOT loose! I never connected it! But thought I would post a pic of everything working! Whahooo.
* also I will get those pics for the tech manual soon.
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Feels very rewarding, doesn't it? :)
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Dear Aaron:
I am very happy for you, because you finally managed to sort out things with your pagoda. There is nothing better than fixing things with your own effort.
Best regards
Eng.Leonardo Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com
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Well done Aaron ! It has been a fascinating journey to witness, you must feel a great sense if accomplishment
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It feels great. I was not sure there for a little while! Definitely could not have done any of this without this forum. And now "Minny" know each other a whole lot better! So that is the first time in the 20 years I have owned the car that everything worked on a drive. I even got the Dash Light to come on when the door opens!
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Bob,
Sorry this took so long but here are the pics. Let me know if you want me to change anything on them. I have them as Photoshop Files, so easy to make adjustments. I was going to email them directly to you but don't see how to attach files in the email section...
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Hello Aaron, just one change, pin 6 should be SW/BL
Thanks
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I will correct and repost.
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Wow can't believe I labeled them both the same. Oh well... Fixed!