Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Electrical and Instruments => Topic started by: merrill on October 21, 2006, 11:27:38
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hello all,
just purchased new red coil, points, condenser and 1.8 ohm ballast from cheryl at K&K.
can I use the current spark plugs in the sl.. bosch plugs MB part # 002-159-24-03
which cross references as bosch WR7DC+
I replaced all the components as I could not id the coil or ballast due to corrosion. ballast ohm'd at 1.8 ohms
matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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Matt,
I would avoid the "R" resistor type plug.
I use Bosch W8DC
naj
68 280SL
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Resistance NEEDS to be in the equation SOMEWHERE if you want to listen to a radio. That one place it needs to be is in the connectors, or the wire, or the plugs--but only in one of those places.
If you use typical German Bosch or Beru plug connectors, there's your resistance--you don't need any more.
If you have a "stock" or like stock wire set, it is solid copper, so you need the resistance in the caps or plugs, and typically it is in the connectors.
Resistor wire is common aftermarket stuff but breaks down far easier and faster then copper. If you use those proper connectors you do not need or want resistor wire.
I think someone invented resistor plugs to avoid the use of troublesome resistor wire, and on domestic cars that don't have resistor connectors.
Bottom line--you want resistance in ONE place only...
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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Michael,
so, here is exactly what I have
bosch spark plug wires, on the wire it says 7mm silicon high temp
the ends read, bosch germany, k4, 0356 30 1022 1k ohm
spark plugs, read bosch super ro 085 then above the threads w7dc
is this a good combinatio with the
red coil, 1.8 ohm resister?
matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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Hello Matt,
Non resistor spark plugs are getting hard to find. Some manufacturers are phasing them out all together.
The original plug wires are solid copper with a silver colored coating (tin most likely). The ends on these wire sets can be screwed off and changed if they become bad. The wires themselves never fail unless the insulation jacket is damaged or becomes bad. You can replace the wires themselves by buying it in bulk and screwing on the original ends. These original ends should be checked with an ohm meter at every tune -up. The early plastic ends #000159 2185 had 1,000 ohm resistance. The later metal ends #000 156 3210 (used with the factory electronic ignition) had 5,000 ohm resistance. The solid copper wire could be bought from Mercedes by the foot #110 159 1818, but probably cheaper at your local hot rod, tractor or motorcycle shop in bulk. The wire ends at the distributor also had removable ends with a set resistance (1,000 ohms I believe). The manual suggests replacing defective parts when the total resistance on each wire reaches 20,000 ohms resistance.
I simply check the wire set with an ohm meter and replace any component which is radically lower than the others.
Now all this information is great if you have the original coil, ballast resistor and original wire set or similar.
Basically what you want to avoid is the resistance carbon wires used on most other vehicles. These will fail.
Resistance spark plugs may not cause you a problem, but the danger is that you will be adding too much resistance to the system causing weak spark of premature failure of some other component. It all depends what wire set you are using, and which coil ballast resistor etc are installed. Non resistor spark plugs are specified for these cars for this reason.
If finding non resistor Bosch plugs becomes difficult, there are other alternatives. NGK spark plugs were originally designed for the high performance motorcycle crowd. They still produce the BP6ES (non resistor spark plug) which work well in the pagoda engine.
Here are some original version spark plug connectors,
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) spark plug wires.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/2006102283747_spark%20plug%20wires.JPG)
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The right angle version was used only on #1 cylinder of Mercedes sedan carbureted engines.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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joe,
thanks for the reply, so, I guess, the name of the game is to not have more than 20,000 ohms resistance. does this include the spark plugs?
I am assuming this is from the distributor end of the wire to the spark plug end?
matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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Hello Matt,
Yes if you have to use resistor type plugs you should also count the resistance of the spark plug.
Yes I like to check from the contacts in the distributor cap and on through the spark plug connector with non resistor spark plugs.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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quote:
Originally posted by ja17
Hello Matt,
Non resistor spark plugs are getting hard to find. Some manufacturers are phasing them out all together.
The original plug wires are solid copper with a silver colored coating (tin most likely). The ends on these wire sets can be screwed off and changed if they become bad. The wires themselves never fail unless the insulation jacket is damaged or becomes bad. You can replace the wires themselves by buying it in bulk and screwing on the original ends. These original ends should be checked with an ohm meter at every tune -up. The early plastic ends #000159 2185 had 1,000 ohm resistance. The later metal ends #000 156 3210 (used with the factory electronic ignition) had 5,000 ohm resistance. The solid copper wire could be bought from Mercedes by the foot #110 159 1818, but probably cheaper at your local hot rod, tractor or motorcycle shop in bulk. The wire ends at the distributor also had removable ends with a set resistance (1,000 ohms I believe). The manual suggests replacing defective parts when the total resistance on each wire reaches 20,000 ohms resistance.
I simply check the wire set with an ohm meter and replace any component which is radically lower than the others.
Now all this information is great if you have the original coil, ballast resistor and original wire set or similar.
Basically what you want to avoid is the resistance carbon wires used on most other vehicles. These will fail.
Resistance spark plugs may not cause you a problem, but the danger is that you will be adding too much resistance to the system causing weak spark of premature failure of some other component. It all depends what wire set you are using, and which coil ballast resistor etc are installed. Non resistor spark plugs are specified for these cars for this reason.
If finding non resistor Bosch plugs becomes difficult, there are other alternatives. NGK spark plugs were originally designed for the high performance motorcycle crowd. They still produce the BP6ES (non resistor spark plug) which work well in the pagoda engine.
Here are some original version spark plug connectors,
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) spark plug wires.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/2006102283747_spark%20plug%20wires.JPG)
54.92 KB
The right angle version was used only on #1 cylinder of Mercedes sedan carbureted engines.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Hello Joe A,
Are the spark plug wires/connectors supposed to have the small rubber boots on both ends?
My 250sl has them only on the distributor end.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Hello Bob,
I can't say for sure that all years had the rubber boots on the plastic spark plug connectors. The late BBB (07-12/1) does show the rubber boots on the plastic spark plug connectors.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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quote:
Originally posted by ja17
Hello Bob,
I can't say for sure that all years had the rubber boots on the plastic spark plug connectors. The late BBB (07-12/1) does show the rubber boots on the plastic spark plug connectors.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Hey Joe A
Thanks for the info, I will look in my BBB.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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I use W9DC unless the engine has full compression and then I'd go to the colder W7DC. On the 90 degree distributor cap ends used on 280SL's the resistance is about 1K and the metal ends should be 1K not 5K. The rotor has 5K built into it so you need to consider that also. Any plug wire that has 20K of total resistance is beyond junk and I can't imagine why the BBB would even state such useless informatin.
Modern Bosch spark plug wire is stainless steel and not copper wire.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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Hello,
Maybe modern replacement sets have those specs, however the originals were 5,000 ohm for the metal shielded spark plug connectors and 1,000 ohms for the plastic spark plug connectors. Maybe new replacement sets are stainless wire but originals spark plug wires were definately coated solid stranded copper wire.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) wire ends.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/20061025204151_wire%20ends.jpg)
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A page from Mercedes Benz Technical Training Manual also gives these specifications in Feb, 1967
Supressed Spark Plugs 5,000 ohms
Original Coil 1.7 to 2.1 primary resistance
condensor capacity 0.23 to 0.32 MCDF
distributor rotor 5,000 ohm
unshielded spark plug connectors 1,000 ohms
metal shielded spark plug connectors 5,000 ohms
coil wire end at coil 1,000 ohms
coil wire end at distributor 1,000 ohms
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Your info is correct. I disagree with the original metal ends being 5K. All ones I've ever seen were 1K but that doesn't they weren't changed.
I did say that modern wire is stainless. No mention from me about original stuff. Good to know these things and I think we would all agree to keep carbon core out of the mix.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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Hello,
Yes, no carbon wires! I just pulled a set off an old Mercedes 4.5 sedan. You could feel and hear the carbon crackling and popping as you flexed the wires, hundreds of little short circuits!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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I saw a comment on the ozbenzforum that Bosch has stopped making non-resistor plugs
http://forum.mbspares.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=445
does that mean I should be squirreling away sets of plugs for my car? currently using W7DC set at .040" gap.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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My car has the original metal ends and they are 5K. Maybe that is because mine has the radio supression option (code 533). I know this is a sore point for Dan, but mine has never had starting ot idling problems.
The wire was "tinned" copper originally. The little brass contacts that were used with the straight ends at the coil and distributor were soldered. That doesn't work with the stainless wires.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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quote:
Originally posted by hands_aus
I saw a comment on the ozbenzforum that Bosch has stopped making non-resistor plugs
http://forum.mbspares.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=445
does that mean I should be squirreling away sets of plugs for my car? currently using W7DC set at .040" gap.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
It means you should squirrel away set only if you want them. I've heard from many sources that NGK's are less apt to foul...My NGK's do seem to burn a bit better, and using the stock recommendation of BP6ES. My Bosch's (I've had both in and out over the past couple of years)seem to get a bit blacker, meaning more fouling.
Important to note that even when new (read the reports from yesteryear in the Gold Portfolio book)thess cars ran rich and tended to foul plugs.
All that being said, I can't for certain say my car runs "better" with NGK's then with Bosch, it's just the post-mortem analysis shows cleaner plugs with NGK and that's it.
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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I have used NGK B7ES for years. I never really liked the "projected" tip plugs (the "P" in BP6ES or BP7ES). It's a matter of personal preference really, but I think the NGKs do run a bit better in these engines. Regarding fouling, back in the days of leaded fuel, the lead would form deposits on the tips of the plugs causing a high speed miss as miles accumulated on the plugs. A good run at high RPM would usually clear the plugs. NGKs seemed a bit less prone to the fouling. The problem disappeared with the debut of unleaded fuels.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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Our shop always used Champion plugs, the Bosch plugs made in the 70's would break off just below the hexagon leaving the threads stuck in the cylinder head. I had to chizzel hundreds of them out.
Back then the Champinion application charts showed N7Y for fuel injected 6's, N8Y for carbureted motors, the N9Y for 3.5 and 4.5 V8s and N12Y for the 6.3 V8.
7 being the coldest, 12 the hottest.
Later a copper core was added and the letter C.
I ordered a dozen N9YC plugs and are running them in my motor now. Champion shows the RN9YC resistor plug as the correct aplication and the non resistor N9YC is still available but shows up as a small engine and motorcycle plug.
Leaded primium gas was still around the last time I drove this car, and the colder 7 heat range was to reduce the lead fowling, That shouldnt be a problem now so I am running the hotter 9's to keep down carbon build up.
Al
113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket
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Hello,
Well I started off using Bosch spark plugs back in 1966 in my 190SL. Back then I used to get them from JC Whitney for twenty nine or thirty nine cents each. The Bosch plug at the time was the W175T30 for most Mercedes four and sixes.
I used Champions N7Y and these Bosch plugs in my shop until the introduction of the copper core plug. A customer (Pat with the Tobacco Brown 280SL on this list) introduced me to the NGK plug in the early 70's. It seems the copper core NGK plug become popular first for the high performance Japanese motorcycle crowd. Pat's 280SL ran a bit lean actually and would only stay running good if NGK plugs were installed. After several failed attempts at tuning with old series Champion and Bosch plugs in his 280SL, I gave in and installed the NGK's. The high speed miss disappeared and did not return. Several years later Champion came out with their copper core plugs N7YC etc. These were obviously superior to the non copper core Bosch at the time (W175T30). I also had experience with these old series Bosch plugs breaking off an leaving the threaded ends in the engine on occasions. It seemed that Bosch was the last to introduce their copper core plugs (supper series) a couple of years later. These were much improved and at least comparable with the other copper core plugs of Champion and NGK.
I like the nickel coating on the modern Bosch threads the most. The modern Bosch plugs seem the least likely to seize or gauld if left in the engine for years. The plating on the threads of the Champions (zinc possibly) seems less resistant to this. The NGKs between the two as far as resistance to this.
I still lean toward the NGKs in my own vehicles for performance but will not hesitate to use the non-resistor Bosch if needed.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Not sure why -- but my mechanic put in NGK BP5ES last tune-up. That was March '03 -- a little over 15,000 KMs ago. Car has run really well.
James
63 230SL
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Joe,
so took some time and found the following
cylinder ohm in 1,000's (wire and end) meter in 20 K ohm range
1 5.09 - had 5k ohm end, the rest had 1 k ohm end
2 1.29
3 1.26
4 1.24
5 1.23
6 1.23
rotor 5.09
wire from coil to distro center 13.46
so, no wonder why I had a miss, when the wire ends were mis matched
Ordered new wired and plugs from cheryl at k and k today.
BBB data from joe
Supressed Spark Plugs 5,000 ohms
Original Coil 1.7 to 2.1 primary resistance
condensor capacity 0.23 to 0.32 MCDF
distributor rotor 5,000 ohm
unshielded spark plug connectors 1,000 ohms
metal shielded spark plug connectors 5,000 ohms
coil wire end at coil 1,000 ohms
coil wire end at distributor 1,000 ohms
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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Hi Matt,
I don't want to disillusion you, but been there and done that. You didn't have a mismatched end; you in all likelyhood had a newer style, boxed set of wires from Bosch aftermarket. These, in the W113 spec (I'm sure it fits a whole bunch of 6 cylinder cars) have the #1 wire with a 5K connector on it. It's angled, too, not straight like the others.
I still have my set, and I can tell you I didn't notice any appreciable difference when I went to the "correct" Beru wire and ends.
But that wire from the coil to the distributor at 13K ohms, sounds a bit high...
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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Michael,
so, even if I had the aftermarket set, should the wire & connector resistance for the #1 cylinder still be higher than the rest?
the #1 connector is at a 90 degree angle while the others are straight. Another difference is the #1 connector is red and there is a scrw on the connector that the wire goes onto.
the rest seem to be molded ends and with the exception of the metal cover are black in color
Matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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Hello Matt,
Yes I agree with Michael, that coil wire sounds way to high. Replace it or its ends. Make sure your new coil wire has metal wire and not carbon cores.
The right angle cable end on #1 cyl. is original on Mercedes carbureted sedan engines. All the fuel injected engines of the era and all W113 engines had six straight connectors.
Normally the wires should be close as far as resistance. It looks like your #1 wire is not a match to the rest of the set.
Hopefully this will solve the miss. If not it will be one more thing put right and one less potential problem on your list!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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quote:
Originally posted by merrill
Michael,
so, even if I had the aftermarket set, should the wire & connector resistance for the #1 cylinder still be higher than the rest?
the #1 connector is at a 90 degree angle while the others are straight. Another difference is the #1 connector is red and there is a scrw on the connector that the wire goes onto.
the rest seem to be molded ends and with the exception of the metal cover are black in color
Matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
Matt,
You can check with the normal suppliers, but you can get the spark plug ends individually. They should all be Beru or Bosch, all be straight, and all be around 1K ohm resistance. That's the resistance for the radio supression. They have a metal jacket over rubber, so they look substantial and made of metal.
The screw you speak of is normal for some connectors; the wire is cut flush, and the connector is screwed up into the wire and this screw makes contact with the conductor. At the cap end you usually see the insulation cut back, the wire (about 1/2") brought up around the insulation, and then a fitting crimped on, making contact with the wire and crimped into the rubber. You spoke of red; there are wire sets out there, Bosch in particular, that have all their ends made of red bakelite plastic. My old 320i had this kind of wire set as standard.
You can buy the solid wire by the foot, too. Here's one place--and only one place--that sells all the little fittings, spark plug connectors, boots, etc. Do a little sleuthing around their site and you'll find what you need. I saw all the little fittings for the distributor cap, the wire, and a selection of either OEM, Beru or Bosch spark plug connectors. I've never bought from these guys, but they seem to have this standard interface that so many other places have. Your usual parts suppliers should be able to help.
http://www.prostreetonline.com
Here are two more places that have the connectors:
http://www.discountmbparts.com
http://www.stopshopanddrive.com
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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So, received new spark plug wires and bosch WR 9 DC plugs from K and K today.
verified all plug gaps and wire ohms before installing.
installed both and no more stumbling!!!!!!!!
set the timing to 31 degrees at 3000 rpm (I konw it is a little advanced, will retard it tomorrow)
took the car for a spin and what a nice ride!
now to torque the head, check the valves and double check the co2.
matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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quote:
Originally posted by merrill
So, received new spark plug wires and bosch WR 9 DC plugs from K and K today.
Is that a resistance spark plug?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Rodd,
according to the bosch web site, the R = wirh resistance suppression
when I look up the 66 230 sl the web site refers to these plugs
4016 PLATINUM PLUS GAP=0.032"
4216 PLATINUM GAP=0.032"
7500 SUPER GAP=0.032"
7900 SUPER PLUS GAP=0.032"
Interesting that the WR9DC is part 7512 which is not referenced on the bosch web site.
hmmm,
matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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Bosch probably doesn't list it because we don't use "R" plugs on our SLs. Also, "9" is pretty hot, but I've read that people use them and like them, specially if their car is running rich all the time. I think "7" is most common.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Rodd,
I took 7's out, what is interesting Is when I ordered the plugs and wire set from cheryl at K and K she "knew" exactly what plugs to sell me.
I mentioned the NGK's that have shown up in other posts and she would not hear it. Since I had purchased new coil, condenser, points, capacitor, wires from K&K I figured they would know the proper plugs to sell me.
As a note, the car runs great with the 9's and when I pulled the plugs today (after 200 km) they had some carbon but it wiped off easily.
matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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I have a question :
I purchased a set of orginal copper corespark plug wire set from Van Dike many years ago. this is thefactory set of ignition wires for the 280SL. I have the Bosch coil wire because the coil wire was not offered in the kit "strange" I have the factory stock spark plug wires Bossch I got from BAP-GEON and the red top coil which I understand is 250SL. I am not quite sure what ballast Ithink it might be 1.8 .
I do notice a carbon problems with my plugs and am not sure this is just a tune up setting oran ignition component problem? could you suggest what to look for ?
Also the distributor is a later alumiumn model. I am replacing it with a rebuilt Bosch 09 thanks to Dr. Benz
Bob Geco
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Hello Matt,
All the "WR" series Bosch plugs are resistor plugs. The ignition on these cars was originally designed for non resistor plugs. Your car should run ok with resistor plugs but you are adding another 5,000 ohms resistance to each plug wire circuit. This may not cause any problems at present, but down the road you may have ignition failure sooner.
Using non resistor plugs may be an acceptable compromise to some. If you are using a modern ignition systems with higher voltages than original, it may handle non-resistor plugs better also.
I have heard Bosch is phasing out the non-resistor spark plugs. Other manufacturers will continue to produce non-resistor plugs I assume.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Joe,
so,
based on your post below would either of the plugs below be ok
NGK BP5ES
4016 PLATINUM PLUS GAP=0.032"
4216 PLATINUM GAP=0.032"
7500 SUPER GAP=0.032"
7900 SUPER PLUS GAP=0.032"
Right now the car runs super smooth, and thus far I am very happy with the way the motor is running.
matt
Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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The BP5ES is too cold. BP6ES, gapped at .032" are what NGK recommends. BP9ES are awful hot if you run hard.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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quote:
Originally posted by Vince Canepa
The BP5ES is too cold....
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
Hi Vince. I don't dare challenge your knowledge on such things but what does this mean, exactly. As I mentioned earlier, my car has been running on these for sometime -- with good results.
James
63 230SL
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quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber
.... but what does this mean, exactly. ..
James,
NGK has a nice write up on that.
See: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/overviewp2.asp?nav=31000
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Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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James - The link Al supplied defines it quite nicely (thanks Al). The net effect of a hotter plug is less deposits forming on the electodes. Back in the day of leaded fuels, this was very important. In the US, where we could not run the cars as hard as in Europe, a slightly hotter plug was appropriate. It helped to keep the lead deposits off the electodes. These old M-B would develop a high rpm miss after 6,000 miles or so (the spark plug change interval was/is 12,000 miles). The miss was caused by the lead deposits. That is why most folks preferred the B7ES over the B6ES. If the plugs became fouled a good high load run would usually burn the deposits off.
The problem with too hot a plug is pre-ignition - where the electodes don't cool fast enough and they ignite the mixture too early (sort of like a glow plug in a model airplane engine). All of this really applies to hard driving and most of these cars aren't driven that way anymore. If anything, I think they are driven too gently, but that also means a hotter plug will work nicely without the pre-igniton problem rearing its ugly head.
I've used the B7ES since 1971 and found them just about right. In fact, that is what the dealer in Monterey, CA, where I bought my car, installed when they serviced these cars. I went back to Bosch for a while about 5 years ago, but I felt the car didn't run as well, so I went back. There was also a discussion about the NGKs in a Road & Track Long Term Test article (around 1971/72) by then engineering editor Ron Wakefield, who owned a 250SL for quite a while.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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Thanks Guys, I think I get it. I am curious if my car might run even better with the 6 or 7s. I am planning a tune-up for Spring -- so we'll see. Good luck Matt!
James
63 230SL
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Wouldn't you know it - with all this discussion about spark plug connectors, one of my originals went bad. As I stated in an earlier reply, my car was fitted at the factory with Beru 5K ends. I was doing my usual winter tune-up/lay-up and found one of the ends at about 10M ohms! Note - you could not tell it was bad by the way the car ran at idle or under load or in the way it started.
Finding the proper end to match my originals is impossible. I tried the links supplied by Micheal Salemi and they are no good. What looks to be the correct part will not work. They do not have the screw that goes into the end of the wires. On top of that they shipped 3 that matched - the rest was a mixed bag of mis-matched parts. Note that these suppliers are getting their parts through World Parts, the same warehouse as Benz Bin, Mercedesshop, etc.
I went where i should have gone in the first place - to my local dealer. We have a great parts guy and he was able to track the original P/N 000 156 28 10 5K ends through numerous substitutions to the current P/N 000 156 52 10. The 52 10 is a 1K ohm connector, Mercedes having apparently come to the conclusion that the 5K was not necessary for adequate radio suppresion (I'm sure this will make Dan Caron happy). The metal jacket is not gold cad, as were my originals, so I had to order 6. They aren't cheap at about $20 each. But at least they match, they fit and don't look too out of place.
I can't see any difference in the way the car runs or starts with the 1K ends but then, it ran fine with one bad end at 10M ohms).
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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Vince and others,
[regarding the three links I suggester earlier in this thread]
Moments ago I just tried Stop Shop and Drive, plugged in my year 1969, my make Mercedes, and then Ignition and had no trouble finding Beru ends; their part number is MBZ005175.
I just did the same with Discount MB parts, and followed similar links to drill down to Spark Plug Connector and found 3 different ones.
Lastly, I went to Pro Street Online just now as well, and essentially the same links come up as the previous, with 3 different connectors, one of them Beru.
So, perhaps these are not exactly what you might be looking for, but these are indeed Beru Supressor Spark Plug connectors, from three different sources and these website/links do indeed work. Again, I tried all 3 just moments ago and found Beru ends at all 3 places.
That being said, if you are trying to match something old, give me a call--you know where to find me. I think I have the very original wire set from my car and would be happy to help you with a Spark Plug connector. I don't know if it is exactly what you are looking for, but it might do the trick. I can always send a photo to you.
You can also try contacting the manufacturer, and I'm sure they'll be able to help:
BERU Corporation
3800 Automation Ave, Suite 100
Auburn Hills, Michigan 48326-1782
Phone +1 248 7540 104
Fax +1 248 7540 113
Contact: eduardo.vultorius@beru.com
I had a wire set made for me using OEM Beru ends; the entire wire set was somewhat less costly then buying all the parts yourself. My wire set came from Mercedesparts.com, was built with Beru ends on both sides of every wire, and Beru wire, and cost $50 for the set. Grant you that was a few years ago, 2002. The only problem with that set was a few of the wires were way too long; Dan Caron shortened them when he had my car 2 years ago.
And of course there is always the dealer, or Caliber (now Mercedes-Benz of Anaheim Hills).
If someone sends you the wrong part all it means is you got the wrong part, it does not mean it does not exist. I've had wrong parts sent to me from a dealer, even Caliber...
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Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
-
Michael - Maybe you did not understand me. Those ends you are referring to WILL NOT work. Instead of a screw that can be threaded into the end of the wire, there is what looks like a brass stud nearly 5 mm in diameter. I can't figure out how you would attach them to the end of the wire. They must be for some other application and incorrectly listed for our cars on the World Parts web link. Also, they appear to be for 8 or 9 mm diameter wires. They may be Beru, the websites may say they fit, but the reality is that they don't work on our cars.
My purpose here is so others can avoid the headache of getting the wrong parts.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
-
quote:
Originally posted by Vince Canepa
Michael - Maybe you did not understand me. Those ends you are referring to WILL NOT work. Instead of a screw that can be threaded into the end of the wire, there is what looks like a brass stud nearly 5 mm in diameter. I can't figure out how you would attach them to the end of the wire. They must be for some other application and incorrectly listed for our cars on the World Parts web link. Also, they appear to be for 8 or 9 mm diameter wires. They may be Beru, the websites may say they fit, but the reality is that they don't work on our cars.
My purpose here is so others can avoid the headache of getting the wrong parts.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
Well, one can contact Beru and get to the bottom of it--they are the guys that make the stuff. I had no issues. I know of the screw you speak of. Perhaps this stud is made for some kind of automated manufacturing/crimping process instead of the screw on. I've only seen screw on types and that's how mine were made. Maybe they just sent the wrong parts to you.
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
-
quote:
Originally posted by Vince Canepa
Michael - Maybe you did not understand me. Those ends you are referring to WILL NOT work. Instead of a screw that can be threaded into the end of the wire, there is what looks like a brass stud nearly 5 mm in diameter. I can't figure out how you would attach them to the end of the wire. They must be for some other application and incorrectly listed for our cars on the World Parts web link. Also, they appear to be for 8 or 9 mm diameter wires. They may be Beru, the websites may say they fit, but the reality is that they don't work on our cars.
My purpose here is so others can avoid the headache of getting the wrong parts.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
You know, sometimes posting a pic is helpful for everyone.
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Tom - The problem area I describe is down in a hole and won't photograph.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
-
quote:
Originally posted by Vince Canepa
Tom - The problem area I describe is down in a hole and won't photograph.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
Vince is absolutely right--I took off one of the connectors (yes, I do have the original wire set with Beru 5K ends)--and short of some kind of fiber-optic camera there's no way to photograph what's down in that hole...I did contact Beru and hopefully they'll be getting back to me on their catalog items etc.
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
-
Hello,
Some later MB cars had spark plug wires with crimped on machine screw ends. Likewise the shielded spark plug connectors had machine screw threads. These are not the same as the originals. However they may be listed as a "fits all" replacement set. In reality, if the manufacturer makes the wires long enough, it work on almost anything but fit correctly on almost nothing.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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There are two basic types of spark plug terminal ends.
The type we are concerned with use a length of spark plug wire that is simply cut off at the end. The plug terminal has a threaded screw at the bottom of the hole where the plug wire is inserted. All you do is push the wire in and turn the connector until it threads into place.
The second type is for more modern cars. This type has a treaded end right on the end of the spark plug wire. The spark plug terminal has a female thread at the bottom of the hole where the plug wire fits into.
You would find this type of system on a 380 SL.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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so, I was talking with cheryl at K&K today and I just "had" to ask why she sold me WR9DC when on their web site they sell WR7DC's.
cheryl told me that in her discussions with gernold at sl tech it was found that the sl's would have a lot of carbon build up.
gernold uses the wr9dc's to help prevent the build up.
just some feedback
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
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Both of those part numbers have that nasty little "R" in them for "Resistor". I thought we were not supposed to use resistor plugs in our Pagodas?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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I've been telling everyone for years that I only use W9DC. The book calls for W7DC but I find they're a bit too cold. The R in the plug code is for resistor and you really don't need to use this type of plug because the plug wire has a resistor built into it. This tends to cut the voltage back too much and you want as much as you can get reaching the spark plug.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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I listened to you Dr. I use W9DC and found the plugs burn cleaner.
Rolf
1966 230SL Auto
1992 300D
1991 FLHS