Author Topic: Always keep the speed limit !  (Read 7585 times)

pagode.info

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Always keep the speed limit !
« on: January 16, 2009, 16:53:49 »
Always keep the speed limit...

 

MichaelB.

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2009, 18:35:30 »
Whoa. I think it was less of a speed thing and more of a lack of control thing.

Speed is nothing without control.

JamesL

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2009, 09:48:25 »
So, a question I have....

Did the safety cell etc work?
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

Richard Madison

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2009, 11:42:26 »
Tosh:

Sorry, but after all these years, I'm still near the Basic level of knowledge about these cars.

What is the "safety cell, etc"?

I know the steering wheel is designed to collapse in some cars. Is this part of the "safety cell" or the "etc"? 

Richard M, NYC
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

JamesL

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2009, 19:52:56 »
Barenyi is credited with a number of advancements in automotive safety, some of which are on the pagoda. As you rightly say, collapsing (and offset) column being one. But my understanding is that the structural rigidity of the car is greater in the passenger compartment with the ends designed to collapse to absorb/spread impact.

My somewhat facetious question was ..... did any of this stuff work!
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

bpossel

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2009, 11:41:00 »
Here is a picture of a 280sl showing a front end crash.

This was a 280sl that crashed into a parking garage wall here in Memphis (about 5 years ago).  From what I heard, the passenger walked away with minor cuts...  the driver had to go to the hospital and was there for awhile.  Never heard of what her injuries were.  You can see that the steering wheel collapsed, doing its job.  Dennis Zanone and I saw the car a year later in a local salvage yard.  The entire frame was bent, entire rear axle pushed forward and under the body. 

Dennis, do you know any more about this?

Bob
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 11:43:07 by bpossel »

hauser

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 17:12:03 »
Bob, thanks for posting this photo.  With reference to the steering wheel collapsing is it safe to say that a Nardi would not perform this way?  I thought it was the steering column that did its job in a front end collision or perhaps a combination of both. 

bpossel

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 17:37:12 »
Hi Hauser,

Actually I believe it's the steering "boss" that is supposed to collapse, the wheel bends or in this case broke.  Not sure what the Nardi would do?  Isn't the Nardi wood? The Nardi may be harder to bend, snap than the MB wheel.  Only a guess...
Bob  :)

66andBlue

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2009, 20:34:19 »
Tosh and Richard,
here are a few more excerpts on this topic from Harry Niemann's book "Bela Barenyi":

Nallinger [Daimler-Benz Chief Engineer and Board member] referred to the Barenyi patent first on the subject of passive accident safety:
"Apart from the conception rules, our measures for interior safety are  laid down as a principle, for Daimler-Benz on the 23rd of January 1951, patented in the Federal Republic of Germany with the Nr. 854.151 This patent is concerned with the following main question: How is the uncontrolled energy created due to motion, obviated in the event of an accident?
Here there is only one answer, transformation of the uncontrolled energy due to motion into deforming the car. Every application for elastic elements, as regularly proposed by amateurs, would be wrong, because elastic elements, simple helical springs for example come to mind, would only store the motion energy and subsequently transmitted further in a different form and direction. Our already mentioned patent concerning the form of the car body works on a principle that we have used for years in all of our model types. The vehicle must be able to deform permanently at the front and rear in order to dissipate the uncontrolled energy released in a crash via the maximum possible path and time, to therefore achieve the minimum possible deceleration values. The actual passenger cell however must be externally as rigid as possible. The complete interior trim component parts found in the passenger cell must also be conceived for permanent deformation in the event of human body impact."


Waqas,
I doubt that Barenyi would have liked the stiffer Nardi wheel.  As you probably know your W111 was the first car that incorporated his safety steering wheel (see picture). These were his design principles:
1. The columns comprising the steering shaft must have the correct lengths.
2. The steering column must be split at the correct position (that is not too far down).
3. The connection piece for the two lengths of steering column may only be
an unguided, plastic deformable "coupling", that under normal circumstances must not twist.
4. The plastic deformable "Coupling" should not only be capable of collapsing solely in the axial direction, but in all directions.
5. The construction position for the top part of the steering column must
remain in place during the collision procedure.
6. The complete layout should comprise a minimum of parts.


His sketches are fascinating!
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

waqas

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Re: Always keep the speed limit !
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 08:34:51 »
Waqas,
I doubt that Barenyi would have liked the stiffer Nardi wheel.  As you probably know your W111 was the first car that incorporated his safety steering wheel (see picture).

Alfred, indeed fascinating stuff thanks!

I have to add that I don't think I'll ever install a Nardi wheel in the 111 coupe-- that would look too uncivilized!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 08:36:31 by waqas »
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas