Opinions wanted - looking at eBay #300308492980

[pghponton]

I was hoping to get an expert's opinion on this car.  I know that looking at the pics is only part of the story but is this too good to be true?  Only $19K?  Any/all thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Howard
'56 190SL "Arlene"
looking for a good W113 (Preferably w/manual trans)

[thelews]

I'd say it's overpriced.  What a mess.

Howard, take a look at www.motoringinvestments.com to see what these cars should look like and then compare to the Ebay car.  Just for starters, the dash color and body color should match.  This was a white car at one time prettied up with too glossy red paint, carpet and liberal amounts of Armor All for sale.

Are you a member of the 190 SL Group?  I have a 190 SL also.

[jameshoward]

I am no expert, but here's a view.

My initial response would be different, I think, to thelews. It is a bit of a mess, but basically from the photo's the car seems OK-ish. I find it unhelpful to compare it with cars double or triple the price, as all that proves is that you get what you pay for. If you can only afford $19K, then looking at a $50K car is a waste of time.

That said, I suppose it's true that the car is a bit of a muddle. There has been a clear attempt to sex up a white car to make it sell more easily as a red car; (happens a lot in London with one particular big 113 dealer in Wandsworth all the time). The carpets are a mismatch ($), the dash wood is missing ($$), there's quite a bit of pricey chrome missing from around the doors that won't be cheap to replace and there are a host of other details that would need to be addressed over time. However, provided you see the car in person, and look long and hard for rust, and provided you can secure a pretty healthy discount from $19K, then you could do worse. Frankly, it all depends on what a thorough look over shows up. The engine bay actually looks OK-ish from the photos.

Get it for $15K and you could have a good car to work with. (And if you only go to test drive it, at least you could give it a good run and then take another look at the silver painted exhaust! That paint should burn off nicely).

JH

[Andres G]

Hello Howard, welcome to the forum.

I'm no expert here, but this is what I can tell from the pictures of this car. Not sure how much you value original condition, but there are a few things I noticed were not model accurate.

- Hubcaps belong to later 280 SL model, not on the 230 which would have had chrome rings and centercaps.
- The color of the hubcaps should match the hardtop.
- The interior color is white, which probably tells you the car has been resprayed in red (White is the #1 most popular W113 color, Red is the #2)
- The trunk lid interior, as well as the soft top cover lid should be black, not body color.
- On the other hand, the interior of the engine bay should have been body color, not black. This has been done often, sometimes to protect the engine compartment, some other times to hide something like rust.
- Badges on the trunk lid are placed incorrectly. the 230 SL badge should be on the driver side of the trunk. Also, I believe the "automatic" badge would have only been present in European spec vehicles only.
- The tail lights on this car are from a later 280 SL, the ones on this car should have been all red.
- Door panels on the car seem to belong to a later model as well, but not sure if they actually belong to an European spec car.
- The trunk interior is covered in carpet, probably to hide a rusty condition underneath. The place where the spare is placed is just random. Should have been vertically mounted on the driver's side of the trunk.
- Pictures of the underneath show there has been much work done to the floors of the car (quite dodgy work, I might add), as well as the revealing picture showing the passenger side door sill. I believe this car has seen plenty of rust...

I think I could go on, but you probably get the point. If I were you, I'd stay far away from this car.

Good luck,
Andres G

[thelews]

I am no expert, but here's a view.

My initial response would be different, I think, to thelews. It is a bit of a mess, but basically from the photo's the car seems OK-ish. I find it unhelpful to compare it with cars double or triple the price, as all that proves is that you get what you pay for. If you can only afford $19K, then looking at a $50K car is a waste of time.

Get it for $15K and you could have a good car to work with.

JH

Beg to differ James.  It is a very good exercise to know what is correct for a car and what quality workmanship is, know what it sells for and discount accordingly for the car being considered.  You need to know what is wrong before you can arrive at that discount.  You also need to know what is correct so that you know what work lies ahead of you if you choose to make those corrections, or what issues you choose to live with.  Knowledge is power.  Motoring Investments provides a unique opportunity for Pagoda owners and wannabes to look at a large variety of models and levels of workmanship, as well as see current asking prices and actual sale prices.  Besides this forum, I would say it is the other "must see" click for any Pagoda enthusiast.

By your pricing, you are agreeing with me that it is at least 26% overpriced.

[mespe]

I'm by no means an expert, but for 19K that's a nice ride. Sure it's not Factory OEM, but hey under 20K, sure to give a couple years enjoyment. And should you shun a member for driving a Pagoda that has been bastardized? It still says W113 on the title.

[Dash808]

It could use a trunk seal, and right headlight is cracked. 

[scoot]

Also missing the washer jet, which means maybe missing more.  And it seems like I saw red upholstery on the bow of the soft top (the photo where the lid is open) which makes me think that this was a white car with a red interior.  (Which seems much nicer to me).    Then mention nothing about the mechanicals.  Seems like a comprehensive mechanical and rust inspection would be required.

[waqas]

Don't be fooled by the glossy paint (reminds me of the old saying "lipstick on a pig"). Did anyone notice the sloppy blotches of paint in the engine bay? (inner right fender, hood spring, etc).

I wouldn't pay more than 12-14k in this market, assuming the lipstick is not simply covering generous quantities of bondo. Any rust repair work on the body can't be much better that the hack job done underneath... so take an ice pick and magnets when you go to see the car.

[mespe]

so take an ice pick and magnets when you go to see the car.

Ice pick,,, OUCH,,,

So in your guy's mind, what would an unrestored Pagoda, missing a few minor pieces be worth? 3-4K?

[Andres G]

Unrestored could be worth a lot of money if there is no rust on it... I'm told such car exists, as does the "Holy Grail"!

On a more serious note, if the car is missing some minor parts but is otherwise solid, without structural damage due to modifications and/or incorrect repairs, it can be worth the 19K asked here for this one, at least for me. When I say "minor parts" I reffer to some chrome, maybe something on the interior... mainly cosmetic items.

When you enter the dangerous territory of cars that have been added some shine to help them move, you are treading on some very unstable ground, as parts for these cars are not so easy to come by and sometimes undoing someone else's mistakes can cost twice as much as fixing something the right way to begin with (like the floorpans).

Regards,
Andres G

[waqas]

Ice pick,,, OUCH,,,

So in your guy's mind, what would an unrestored Pagoda, missing a few minor pieces be worth? 3-4K?

Ice pick for underneath, magnets for the body. Unfortunately, most sellers wouldn't let you use a screwdriver/ice-pick underneath their car, especially if they're trying to hide something. There was a great little talk/demonstration at the last PUB by Tim Kidder of K&K, where he used an ice pick on a volunteer's rusty car (underbody). It quickly became very obvious that even an area that looks reasonable by the appearance of the undercoating can be cancerous.

To be clear, I don't know if this car is rusty or not. I'm just looking at the shiny-ness of the paint-job relative to the conspicuous lack of attention to detail on the rest of the car, and the contrast makes me very wary.

I agree with Andres, I would prefer the unrestored one, and would pay much more than 3-4k even with a little rust. Body work is the kind of unknown that requires a good evaluation of the 'integrity' of the rest of the work done on the car. On this car, the rest of it seems sloppy; hence...

[hkollan]

The original poster states that he's "looking for a good W113".  As I see it there's no way that this W113 can be described as
a good car. And even if you get it for 15k or even 12k it's probably still not a bargain.
If a good car is what your looking for forget this one and keep looking.
Most of it's issues or mess as thelews accurately described it,  have been pointed out by others already.

[Douglas]

I would pass on that car without a second thought. It has literally every telltale sign of a hastily cobbled together car: the sloppy color change (to signal red, of course)... the missing pricey parts like wood and chrome... the 280SL parts swapped indiscriminately for 230SL parts..... the low price..... All signs of a car bought on the cheap to flip quickly.

[Kenneth Gear]

I agree with Douglas.  To many red flags with this one; take a pass and look for an honest car from a private seller.

[waltklatt]

I would run from this car with the very next flight out of town. 

The worst kind of car to buy.

No jack holes on the rockers, how can one jack up the car to replace the flat tire? 
All the other things are manageable with a bit of money, but the jack points missing......
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel

[hkollan]

Just wondering, but perhaps this guy has gotten enough advice by now. He's made 1 post on the same day he registered on this site, and hasn't been active since that day. A little weird if your really looking for information and advice on purchasing a w113.
Also some of the elements of his post had a strange ring to it when I read it.
"Is this too good to be true"  and "only 19k"(for that piece of total crap).
I might very well be mistaken, but that's how I see it.

[Louis]

The car is gone. The seller ended the auction early. Imagine if the buyer find's his or her way here to ask for advice on their new purchase?   

[waqas]

I might very well be mistaken, but that's how I see it.

Having re-read his post, I think you might be on to something. Very curious indeed.

[Peter van Es]

Hans and Waqas... I think you can just about stop with that track... you are both mistaken.

After you posted your suspicions, I verified the original posters IP address. It is an IP address from a company that does not provide Internet service in the same state as the seller of the E-Bay item (Windy City Motorsports in Schaumberg, IL). So stop this conjecture, assume instead that the Original Poster is either too busy, or as a new joiner has not made visiting this forum part of his daily routine, or has just been reading the posts without logging in.

Peter

[Dash808]

has not made visiting this forum part of his daily routine,

 

[hkollan]

Peter,

You are probably right, and unless we never here from this W113 seeker he is probably for real.
It was just the combination of his wording and the actual (sorry) state of the car that drew my attention,
as well as the fact that he didn't come back with any comments, yet.