Values still up.

[Douglas]

I'm told by a reputable source that a verified low-mileage (under 20K) 280SL in New England wearing its original (and slightly tired) paint recently traded hands for a whopping $96K. Not bad for this market.

[ctm14]

Interesting Richard,

  I just spoke with a guy in DC who is selling a very nice 69 signal red with 23K original.  He is asking 110K and I though the price was crazy but who knows.

http://www.daveolimpiautomobiles.com/

Chris

[Bob G ✝︎]

Doug:

Are you sitting down? you may need to hear this in stereo. I was visiting a well known 300SL restorer  in his shop is a 280SE/9 3.5 cabriolet. the car is going for  $550,000 over have a million dollars. I was told the gentleman is upside down
and got too carried away. the average W111 /9 3.5 cabriolet restored is in the 150,000 to 200,000 range. With only 750 of these jewels imported the last year and only year for the introduction of the 3.5 liter V8 in coupe& converible , sedans and the new R-107 350SL. This classy convertible got the romp of a good old fashion V8 .

Because  it was the last and best of the best Daimler Benz had to offer. I would refer to owning a Pagoda or this jewel the next 401 k!!!

Bob Geco

[JamesL]

Bob

FWIW, the 280SE 3,5 Convertible in RHD..... only about 70 were made apparently. Hens teeth....

[mdsalemi]

I'm told by a reputable source that a verified low-mileage (under 20K) 280SL in New England wearing its original (and slightly tired) paint recently traded hands for a whopping $96K. Not bad for this market.

This seems to be following the "trend du jour" which is originality as opposed to good looks; well preserved as opposed to highly restored.  There's been some discussion on that in other places.  The establishment of a "preservation class" in MBCA Concours, (not an original idea to the MBCA) and other preservation classes validates the point.

It will lead to, guaranteed, restored and well repaired cars being intentionally "distressed".  Note, the distributor restorer, Glenn Ring, often gets called for "distressed" distributors by VW people who compete in off-road rallys...perfectly restored and functioning devices intentionally made to look like they were NOT restored.  I saw a glimmer of this a few years ago, when a well-known restorer presented a restored W113 that showed as "original".  The car had been restored, but 20 years ago, so while it didn't show the deterioration of a 40 year old car, it had the patina of a preserved 20-year old.  An old "tar-top" battery top had been carefully grafted onto the top of a modern battery, too.  While done for presentation, not to command a high price, you can see where this can go in an era of rising prices for originality.

If well preserved, "original" cars are commanding higher prices, and this part of the market is going up, better pay extra careful attention to claims of originality.

[john.mancini]

Hi Doug,
Was that a private sale or though a dealer? Up here, in this neck of the woods, dealers like Paul Russell or Hatch & Sons command some very lofty prices. I don't know how they do it. It must be reputation. We would all agree that real nice, original cars are still harder to find. As parts become scarce, complete, unmolested cars are going to continue to appreciate. Most great W113's are still undervalued in my opinion. The cover of April's Classic and Sports Car Magazine out of the UK calls the W113 a "Super Star, the Perfect All-Around Classic". A light blue 230SL graces the cover. European prices seem very healthy. I have had tremendous interest in my blue-grey 230SL from Europe. One gentleman from Germany just offered me $5K over my asking price when I told him that the car may have already sold to an American buyer! I think that this is indicative of the future appreciation of our beloved Pagodas.
John

[floatinghat]

Years ago on (Dorian's and the Yahoo boards) I used to have this debate regularly with people.  In my eyes it is simple, as more of these cars are restored the value of originality increases.  Originality can't be replaced with NOS, replating, painting, etc.  More of the real good but used cars are/were being restored which creates a greater desparity in the quality of available vehicles.  The thing about the w113 there were a lot produced and these are solid reliable vehicles and can be used and part replaced. 

[Douglas]

John, the sale was through a very reputable dealer up there. I agree with your assessment that survivors still represent good value.

[Mark280SL]

When I look at the 280sl at this site www.daveolimpiautomobiles.com that indicates no restoration I have a hard time believing it has had no restoration at all, just looks too good for a car that age unless it has had some work done.  My opinion.....

Interesting Richard,

  I just spoke with a guy in DC who is selling a very nice 69 signal red with 23K original.  He is asking 110K and I though the price was crazy but who knows.

http://www.daveolimpiautomobiles.com/

Chris

[john.mancini]

Mark, you are very astute. The car has had one repaint AND if you look at the engine compartment it has been done over. The engine compartment is beautifully restored BUT the paint on the overflow tank and the power brake booster is too glossy. Also, the windhield washer bag is a replacement. I believe that the original bags have brass grommets. It looks like the interior is all there. It is, no doubt, a spectacular car. Dave always has great cars and he represents them very honestly. I'm not sure just how original it is though. It may be more of a paint/resto of a low mileage, great 280SL.
John

[Mark280SL]

Its true , that engine compartment has definitely been done over, how much who can say, then there is the other work that they indicate has been done, then after that consideration one could very reasonably assume there is yet more under the covers that has been redone.

I'm not looking to knock this dealer at all because he appears to be reputable and definitely has some nice cars for sale based on what I know and can see.

One can split hairs and argue over the degrees of what a restoration is and then a "freshen up" as some like to say but the fact of the matter (in my opinion) is that at the end of the day a 40 year old car, a car that I know very well, simply could not look that good and qualify as not being considered as a restored vehicle.

[Andres G]

Interesting subject... what is restored, unrestored or upkept? I wonder if by just using the car and maintaining it, part of the originality is slowly fading away. I personally don’t think so.

What if our car is completely original, but the battery on it has been updated? After all, no one can expect a battery to last for 40 years in a car. What about spark plugs or windshields? Cracking a windshield is a common occurrence, especially back in the 60's (I assume, since I was not even born then), so why should this be a factor to determine originality?

To give you an example, I am a bit of an anorak myself when it comes to maintenance in a car.  I had a 92 Alfa SZ (The Monster) which would constantly overflow coolant over the expansion tank on the passenger side of the engine bay... this would end up staining the plastic bottle as well as the paint below. People would agree to consider cleaning the area as maintenance (not repainting to cover the stains), but changing the expansion tank for one that is new and clean may be considered by some as altering the originality of the car... how far should we take this?

All I can say is that it didn't seem to matter when I sold the car, which went back to the original owner who had sold it to me in the first place. I should have learned from that too, as he paid more for it than he had originally sold it to me for...

Anyway. I guess I got carried away. Sorry for the long posting.
Andres G

[Douglas]

It may be more of a paint/resto of a low mileage, great 280SL.
John

My understanding of this car is that this is exactly what it is.

[gilles82]

For this  230 SL with 58.000 km now the price is only 13.150 € in France...

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Mercedes-230SL-blanche-1964-PAGODE_W0QQitemZ280343717683QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFR_JG_Auto_Pi%C3%A8ces_Automobiles_Test?hash=item280343717683&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

.

[Peter van Es]

That's the current bid price, I doubt a transaction would take place at that price. Even not very good or average cars typically sell in the €20-€30,000 range. You can bet it moves up sharply in the last hour of bidding, since it also appears to only have done 58K kilometers. Hey, if I can get some good engine pictures I may even bid, it appears to be a French delivered 230SL manual.

Peter

[Peter van Es]

I communicated with the seller, he claims to be second owner (as of 1968) yet has no documentation on the car. I got some pictures of the more suspect areas. Bits look OK (like the seats - not shown on the photographs) but other bits look a little worse... judge for yourself. I reckon a max price of €18-20K would be ok. He offered this on ebay with no reserve at a starting price of €1... you might think it is brave, but I know from experience it is a surefire way to attract bids on an item, and once an item has many bids (he's got 40-odd now) the human herd instinct will attract more bids than possibly a better item offered at a more realistic price. I know, I've successfully sold high-ticket items this way too!

Check the photographs.

Peter

[gilles82]

Sold at 20.050,00 EUR