Author Topic: Importing an 'Historic' SL into the UK (Read 9715 times)

Drewtee · « **on:** April 28, 2009, 16:24:25 »

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and seriously considering importing a US car to the UK.

Sl's, apparently, were rated as 'Historic' by HM customs meaning a much reduced rate of Excise Duty and VAT.

Since around May '05 i believe they have tightened this classification right up and its much more difficult for a car to be regarded as 'historic'.

Does anybody know of anyone importing under this classification since around May'05. I tried calling but it's seems like they are not giving an answer until you submit the car in question.

I need to know as it makes a big difference to the Budget!

Thanks in Advance

Andy

JamesL · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2009, 17:43:33 »

IIRC, historic - for your lower tax treatment purposes - is not a Pagoda. More your Bugatti Atalantes and the like. Older and far more rare than a bog standard Pagoda. I guess if you could prove it was the first RHD car or something that gave it significance, you may get lucky. However....

Do a member search for nixcolley. She bought a car from a member in NY and it's a stunning car. She went through the rigmorole of an import... You may want to pm her, although her write-up of the experience may help you

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4557.0

jameshoward · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2009, 18:21:32 »

Andy,

I imported a car from the US to Germany and then to the UK. I can't help much with HM Customs questions, but I can with a very good shipper and other general advice.

PM me if I can help.

James

Drewtee · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2009, 19:04:25 »

Quote from: jameshoward on April 28, 2009, 18:21:32

Andy,

I imported a car from the US to Germany and then to the UK. I can't help much with HM Customs questions, but I can with a very good shipper and other general advice.

PM me if I can help.

James

Hi James,

Just wondering. How much import tax to Germany? How Much to the UK ? i'm sure you can read my thoughts

Tosh, I think your correct regarding 'Historic' It's the impression i got when i spoke to them today was just hoping that somebody could confirm otherwise. I wonder if a ZF gearbox makes the car 'historic'

jameshoward · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2009, 21:17:59 »

Andy,

I know where you're coming from, but I'm not a good comparator. I imported into Germany because we were living there at the time, plus I was VAT free so was not charged any duty. When I brought the vehicle to the UK it came over as a current possession and so no duty was charged.

I think I read somewhere that duty is about 13%. I don't think you'd pay VAT on the car, as it's used.

I would be very surprised if it were cheaper to import to another European state and then on to the UK given the probably much higher costs you'd incur for transport.

James

AGT · « **Reply #5 on:** April 29, 2009, 07:57:11 »

Andy

I imported my 230SL from the USA into the UK in June 2006. I paid Customs Duty of £50 and VAT at 17.5% of the purchase price.

I don't think that a 60s car would qualify as historic. You should discuss it with the shippers as they deal with the payment of the taxes and the ones who specialise in car importing will know the answer to your question. My recollection is that I had to pay the taxes to get the car released to me at Tilbury docks.

Also budget for about £1,000 for shipping (more from the West Coast although rates will have come down in the current market) and about £500 for insurance (which might have gone up in the current market).

Overall the process worked well for me. I bought from a member of this group and was able to have the car inspected by a pagoda specialist. The transportation worked fine and I was able to get the car through its MOT and registered quickly. The only problem I encountered was that my insurer could not insure a car which was not registered in the UK and so strictly I should have trailered the car home from the docks.

Regards
Andrew
1966 230SL
1969 280SL

Drewtee · « **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2009, 11:22:33 »

Andrew,

thats interesting that you only paid Duty £50 as i have been quoted 10% duty and 15 % vat. Could you let me know (PM may be better) how you managed this.

I've just double checked that Europe is ZERO tax, which means i need to find a reputable dealer in Europe offering top examples and compare all in prices with the US.

I'll start another thread asking for any recommendations otherwise this thread gets blurred.

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2009, 18:28:33 »

For road tax purposes "historic" means pre 1972. (I think)
AFAIK all pagodas in the UK can be classed as historic.
I tried to hacve a '66 230Sl re-classified recently (from PLG to historic status) and the only issue preventing me doing so was that I would have to register the car in my name in order to do so. As I'm in the trade and the car was a restoration that was being prepared for sale I elected to let the new owner tackle it.
I'm just going through this process for another customer who doesn't have a registration document at all! this involves buod certificates and a VOSA inspection so will let you know how it goes but you could check the DVLA web site for further info.

jameshoward · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2009, 18:38:21 »

Andy,

THere are a few reputable dealers in Germany that I know of, but the Euro vs the Pound, plus the fact that these cars when in good condition go for a bomb in Europe. They really are very expensive indeed (having just moved back from there last year, trust me!)

Without doubt you would be better off by a country mile buying a good US car that has lived in a favourable environment (where it doesn't rain) and bring it over here and pay the duty. The cost of shipping, insurance and tax is an incidental and a complete red herring when it comes to finding the right car. I'd recommend you forget about those elements completely and focus on buying the right car.

JH

franjo_66 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:30:35 »

Andy,

You may want to consider looking in Australia. All Australian-delivered Pagodas are RHD and have the Euro style headlights, etc.

Also, one aussie dollar gets you about 0.48 sterling, so you still enjoy quite a bit of an advantage currency-wise. I know quite a few guys here in sydney that have sold their W113s & W111s to buyers in the UK. The environment here in Australia is quite favourable, and any discussions etc with potential sellers is in english.

May be worth considering.

Rgds
Frank

Drewtee · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:49:49 »

I was looking at the R/h drive Australian import that 'Hairpin' had but the colour was not for me. Nice condition though.

The big thing regarding importing for me is trusting that the car will actually arrive once the money has been paid into the account. There are a couple of dealers in the states that i would be happy to deal with long distance but otherwise there is a big trust issue. This is why i'm on the forum looking for 'Reputable' dealers.

Franjo can you recommend a reputable dealer in Australia or any suggestions of how to do a long distance transaction in a safe manor. Obviously i would have the car inspected locally by, say, a member. But i would otherwise be buying 'blind' over that distance.?

James- Ive been looking at the history of cars offered by 'Mechatronik' ( not the upgraded ones) and 'Mo Vendi' and they seem to be good quality at a reasonable cost (compared to importing from the states.) A lot of their cars seem to be American Imports?? Does anybody have anything positive or negative to say regarding these dealers. Please PM if you would prefer.

jameshoward · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:38:58 »

Andy,

These guys are about the best in the business, anywhere; here's a link to the only 113 they have at present: http://www.kienle.com/daten/english/db/Select2.asp?ID=394&START=&Info=Info

Then there's the Mercedes-Benz classic centre at Stuttgart, who one would assume as equally as good. They often have pagodas, but again they will be expensive.

Heaven knows what that'll cost since they've restored it. To give you an idea of their, they restored a friends 600 and that cost about E250,000. Madness.

To address your concerns about trusting a US shipper, I would say that you shouldn't worry too much about that side of things. If you can find a car from someone on this site, I would not be concerned at all. Shippers are careful, and you can pay more for a better service, say if you want to use a container instead of a ro-ro (mine came on a ro-ro and was fine). I don't think there's much chance of you being defrauded provided you take sensible precautions and purchase from a trusted seller.

FYI, there is a nice looking car on Ebay for about £49K. If it's as good as it says, it would be worth a look. Then bargain with the owner. That car owner is on this forum also.

JH

Drewtee · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2009, 12:08:38 »

thanks james for those Pointers. Ill take a look at those now.

No experience of 'Mechatronik' or 'Mo Vendi'??

jameshoward · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2009, 14:32:16 »

None. Although I've seen a Mechatronik conversion and it was mad, but beautifully done. If you like that sort of thing. Maybe impressive is the right word.

franjo_66 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2009, 02:33:59 »

Andy,

I'll try and dig up the names/contacts for people that have sold W113s/W111s etc to the UK. I seem to recall that there was a company based here in Sydney that did this.

I know that quite a few Mercs have been sold via auctions (eg Shannons, Bonham, etc) in Sydney & Melbourne to overseas buyers. You would expect no funny stuff as they are very reputable auctioneers.

Rgds
Frank

Drewtee · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:19:29 »

thanks Frank, that would be great.

Garry · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:39:28 »

Hi Frank and Andy,

I have had a look at a couple of the Auctions by Shannons and they have been a bit of a hit and miss for Pagoda's here in Melbourne. I guess Frank you could cover Sydney and I and even Dirk (Else1969) could cover Melb if Andy wanted us to check out any that he identifies. Here are probably the three primary sites to search for any in Oz outside the MB clubs.
http://www.drive.com.au/?s_rid=WS:age:top
http://carsguide.news.com.au/?from=heraldsun
http://www.shannons.com.au/

Good luck on your search Andy
Garry

Drewtee · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2009, 19:24:52 »

Lovely, thanks Garry,

Looks like just the one SL280 for sale in Australia at the moment! I'll be keeping an eye on these sites from now on.

franjo_66 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:20:36 »

Andy

You may also want to keep an eye on www.carsales.com.au. You can use the search criteria to focus on dealer & private ads for 230/250/280SLs

They have some W113s for sale currently. Interestingly, there are some imported LHD versions for sale !

Gary, thanks for posting up the Shannons site. I have my car insured via them and they are a great mob to deal with.

Andy, the sales that I know of were done outside of the known auction houses. The gentleman that I talked to has relocated to the Blue Mountains (west of Sydney), but still has his W108 sedan stored in a garage one stree away from me. I'll try to track him down.

Rgds
Frank

Garry · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:38:45 »

Forgot about www.carsales.com.au They are a good site and usually pick up all the vehicles as well.

Maybe Andy could look at the 230 that Faber passed on when he brought a W107 instead that appeared to end up at a good price with some relatively minor work but all very well detailed so you would know what you were getting? It is in another thread here under 'for sale' http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=10574.0

Drewtee · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2009, 09:03:21 »

Garry,

I looked at that car but as i'm not looking for a project, it's not for me. The Australian source for an SL though is looking like a good option for me. Dry climate and RH drive- plus exchange.

Frank, that site looks like a good source. I'll be scanning that from now on. It has a few no there which i shall look at in detail later.

I'm looking for something really 'special' in condition. The search continues!

franjo_66 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 08, 2009, 04:31:43 »

There was a really nice 280SL with factory 5-speed advertised a few months ago in carsales.com.au, but I think it went very quickly. I usually look at it several times a week. there are some nice ones that come along.

I am looking for an E34 M5 at the moment.....but it will be outnumbered by my 230SL, W210 E36 and W116 !

Andy, I managed to get further details as to how the aussie W113s were sold to their UK buyers. Apparently the majority of owners contacted the "wanted to buy" ads in Mercedes Enthusiast.

Rgds
Frank

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Author Topic: Importing an 'Historic' SL into the UK (Read 9715 times)