Author Topic: Timing chain tension  (Read 10140 times)

Dash808

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Timing chain tension
« on: August 12, 2009, 09:28:50 »
Could someone please explain exactly how to tighten the timing chain? 

I've done quite a bit of searching and have read numerous posts dissecting the tensioner, but don't see a clear explanation of how to take up the slack on the chain.  I assume there needs to be more pressure on the tensioner sprocket but how to adjust that?

My engine has about 68k miles and there is about 10mm of play between the chain and the guide so hopefully the tensioner is not at it's limits and can take up the slack.

At this point I feel like I know more about how to replace the chain than just adjusting the tension, lol  ::)

Many thanks...
Chan Johnson
'67 250sl
Napoli Italian Euro

Bang Bang Booogie!

menesesjesse

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 15:01:05 »
Dash
Well I just finished my motor and I had to do this several times.  First the tensionor is known to leak oil and the rubber seals in it should be changed to prevent leakage.  The tensioners are availiable from suppliers if you want to go new.  Once you have this figured out you can assemble it and install the unit with no oil.  The cam cover must be removed to prime the tensioner.  Once installed look down and have an arm with the gear that rides with the timing chain.  You will need add oil to the left corner of the head and make a small pool for priming. Once done move that lever(arm) towards the tensioner piston to prime it. After a couple pushes the piston will start applying pressure on the chain and the slop will go away.  If you prime it and the chain stays loose or loses tension quickly I would definitely buy a new tensioner.  Good luck and call me if you need further guidance. 951-514-0760
Jesse
1966 Mercedes 230 SL auto
2003 Mercedes E500
1992 Ford F150
1994 Ford Bronco
2019 Shelby GT350R
1967 Mercury Cougar XR7

Benz Dr.

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 15:07:26 »
If your chain has become loose in a running engine you either have a worn chain ( even at 60,000 miles ) or the tensioner has quit working. Try to bleed the air out of it but if that doesn't work then you will need a new one.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
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ja17

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 04:33:10 »
Hello Chan,

The tensioner is mainly hydraulic. Oil friom the engine keeps the tensioner pumped up and taunt  agaist the chain. An internal sping does a bit of the work but it is mainly hydraulic. These tensioners are very durable and usually last the life of the engine. There are no soft seals, just a check valve and a metal  seal at the cap of the   tensioner. The tensioner takes up slack in the chain until it is fully extended. At this point the timing chain should be replaced. During chain replacement, the tensioner, chain guides and sprockets should be examined also.

Knowing when the chain should be replaced is a little tricky. You will need to have the valve cover off. Make sure that there is no slack on the side of the chain going down on the left side (injection pump side).  Turn the engine by hand a bit if you need to remove any slack in the chain. Next examine the chain on the right side.  You should be able to determine if the tensioner is taking up all the slack. If the tensioner is extended all the way and you still have slack, replace the chain. Automatically replacing  the chain at 100,000 miles is a good rule of thumb. As Dan indicated, the cahin may need replacement sooner, but this is unusual.
The side plates on a lot of the original early chains were shaped like the figure "8".   Later chains were shaped like an oval. If yours is the figure "8" style it is more likely to be the original chain.

"jwis" is one of the original equipment timing chains. It has 134 links and the manufacturer's number is D67-134.  Do not use off-brand timing chains.   I have seen some  "Regina Extrada" brand timing chains which are obviously lighter duty and not original quality. You can get the original manufacturer timing chains from Mercedes or other aftermarket sources.

Chain stretch is actually a small amount of wear at each of the 134 pins in the timing chain. When  you add all this pin wear together the chain becomes longer and weaker.   When a cylinder head is milled you actually increase slack in the chain by twice the amount the head was milled.

Catastrophic chain failure occures when the timing chain becomes so long from wear that it can actually jump out of time allowing the engine valves and pistons to crash into each other.  At this point the chain can actually break, the camshaft can break into pieces, the valves can bend and pistons can be damaged. If the chain tensioner is not functioning, or is at the end of its range the chaince of catastrophic chain failure are increased. Badly worn chain sprockets and chain guides can also increase chances of failure or increase chain wear. As with most engine moving parts, clean oil reduces chain wear !

Chain sprockets,  chain guides and tensioners are usually replaced during major engine repairs, and only if needed at chain replacement. Original chain rails were made of aluminum and rubber, it these rails wear out they made some noise, but did not break.  Replacement chain rails are plastic. When they get old and brittle they break and fall into chain gallery and cause more problems or catastrophies. If you have the plastic chain rails you will need to  be a little more diligent about your chain and rails as they get older.

Hope this helps!

Take care,
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
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Dash808

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2009, 06:42:12 »
Jesse, Dan, Joe, Thanks for the replies.

I took the valve cover off initially to adjust the valves, inspect the timing chain, and to clean up the valve cover.  As I was poking around I noticed the slack in the chain similar (I believe) to Rodd's chain in your shop at PUB, Joe, except that I think you got his tightened up...  

How can you tell visually if the tensioner is extended all the way?  Is it just because it won't be able to take up the slack?

The chain is an original as is the tensioner and guide.   I haven't run it in a few days and wonder does the hydraulic pressure bleed off and that is maybe why it seems a little slack now?  I put the cover back on and am going to go for a spin and then bring it back in to see how tight it is then.   And while it's warm retorque the head.  

Well out of all that I did clean up the valve cover.  A little wet sanding and Alum polish works wonders.

I'll report back later.

Chan
Chan Johnson
'67 250sl
Napoli Italian Euro

Bang Bang Booogie!

menesesjesse

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2009, 20:06:11 »
Dash
When I took mine apart and reinstalled it I primed it and the chain became tight with no slack.  I left it like that for days and even weeks and it remained tight.  I imagine if the cap seal leaks the chain will lose tension.  If your motor loses tension over a short period of time I would be concerned.  The length the piston travels is not too much.  The piston itself in not that long either.  I believe the BBB has some specs on the length.  Like JA mentioned the guides can affect slack and cause serious problems if the chain jumps.  JA: My tensionor cap had a rubber seal inside.  Is this something new maybe?
Jesse
1966 Mercedes 230 SL auto
2003 Mercedes E500
1992 Ford F150
1994 Ford Bronco
2019 Shelby GT350R
1967 Mercury Cougar XR7

ja17

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2009, 03:35:12 »
Hello Chan,

Actually the head has a little pool in the chain gallery which collects oil for the chain tensioner. This pool is right where the tensioner piston contacts the sproket arm of the tensioner. When the engine is running it causes slight movement of the tensioner sprocket. This movement pumps engiine oil (from the pool) into tensioner. Normally  the tensioner will stay tight as long as the engine is running. It is also taunt when the engine is off, but can be depressed with some force If needed.

If your engine has over 100,000 miles on it  and the chain has never been replaced, You should replace it .

You can check for excessive chain flap by removing the valve cover. You will need a tight chain on the injection pump side first of all.  If you have some slack here, rotate the engine just a bit by hand to take all the chain slack out of this side.  Next check to see if have excessive slack on the chain tensioner side. If you still have slack at the tensioner sprocket, replace the chain!

Chain replacement is not that difficult but check in with us if you do so.  There are some pitfalls which we can help you with.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

waqas

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2009, 03:41:59 »
Here's an awesome thread that documents when Joe and Rodd replaced a timing chain: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=661.0

One of these days I'll gather enough courage to do this job...
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

Dash808

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Re: Timing chain tension
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2009, 04:36:50 »
Well folks, I have good news and good news...

The good news is I went for a spin, then took off the valve cover and inspected the chain and it was nice and tight as it should be.   

The other good news is I retorqued the head while the engine was warm.  All went well.  It was interesting because the strap bolts took all of 140lbs and a bowl of wheaties to break loose, while the rest took around 60lbs.  All are retorqued to 65lbs (M129). 

I'll let it sit and check the chain again in about a week when I adjust the valves.  It has 68k miles so hopefully I can hold off on replacing it for a while.  I'll probably let Waqas do it first and see how it goes for him ;D

Thanks again for the inputs!

Chan
Chan Johnson
'67 250sl
Napoli Italian Euro

Bang Bang Booogie!