Would you buy this car: Part Deux !! (for my education)

[Deschodt]

Still looking for a decent "runner", after I passed on that california coupé on ebay, I saw a local FS ad and there are the results..
Please critique my comments/opinions below. I'm trying to get an idea whether the sellers are unrealistic, or if it's me. I can take it if it's me  

**Note: this is not meant as a criticism of the seller or the car or the price, I just want to get an idea of what the market is ***
 
I just need to know, because so far I've seen my share of "turds" and if I need to spend $50K to avoid that sort of stuff, then I probably need to look for another type of car... I need an honest assessment from you experts ;-)

This was a 67 Auto 230SL. Not really an Automatic guy but asking price was $25K and the pictures looked good..

So far so good, thought I had finally found the one...



Hard top rain channels rusting... Damn, Ok I can rationalize this one...



Not sure what the deal is there, but the dash and the entire interior needs work. The seats were also all flaking...



CV top frame also rusting a bit...



Engine compartment rust, a bit scary to me because I didn't know they could rust there...



Fan and radiator look ratty to me...I'd have to redo all that...



Trunk: and that is a good picture, I have ugly closeups of rust but you wouldn't know what you are looking at



Okay, on top of that, more issues:
- The auto tranny was not engaging well between fwd and reverse, and definitely needs a rebuild soon
- The steering was as precise as that of an oil tanker, so new box or refurbish or simple tightening (ha, right!)
- Hood gaps very uneven side to side
- Wheels somewhat ratty
- The auto issues + 230 power made this about as fast as a geo Metro - I definitely need a stick if I get a 230.
- Other than that, smooth engine, pretty car from 10ft.

Okay, I've done this work on Porsches and old Bimmers before, I can see spending $10K in a heartbeat getting this car to "Okay", probably way more if the rust is bad - and it's always worse than it looks. Tranny, engine stuff, derusting, a whole interior, I mean 10K is low...

I walked, I'd prefer spending $35K upfront on a decent car than 25+10+??? on this and wait a year on completion... So please go ahead, am I unrealistic ?  I could take faded paint, a missing top, dings, even leaks, but if $25K is a correct price for a car with those needs, and which I'd be scared to drive on a freeway, maybe I need to find another hobby. Is my 35K assumption unrealistic too ?

[pj]

I held out for a stick shift without air conditioning but otherwise my car looked similar in the first photos I saw, almost a year ago. I paid just under $15k. The rust I couldn't see at first is keeping me off the road for a while yet, and costing more of course. Heh, I'm only a newbie but if you're looking for an opinion, I think the seller is way too ambitious at $25k. I hope it finds a good home at a more reasonable price.

[Shvegel]

I could be wrong but isn't the "Automatic" emblem on the rear a Euro only item? If it is the miles on the car are the miles since imported and not the total miles on the car.  All that said it looks like the car would merit a much more thorough inspection by someone who knows exactly what they are looking at.

[66andBlue]

From the few photos that you posted showing the interior, engine and trunk conditions I would not go over $15K even if everything else is OK. But usually it is not.

[badali]

I would have to agree the $25K is too high needing all that.  I have sunk another $10k in mine after the purchase of $15K.  I still have some work to do but I could drive it as is when I bought it.  I have gone through the brakes, exhaust, soft top, taillights, headlight bezels + much more.  All of these items were very costly and I had no serious rust issues.  Just be weary of rust and panel fit when the car is over $15K.

[stickandrudderman]

No way that car is worth the asking price.
Here's a tip:
Employ someone who knows these cars well to inspect the cars you are interested in and get a list and approx. cost of repairs. Show the list to the vendor and discuss it with them. Occasionally (IME) a vendor will be as interested as you are in the report and quite often they're then prepared to sell the car at a more realistic price.
I've bought cars for less than half the asking price in the past.

[Richard Madison]

For $25,000 should be able to find a "Clean" Driver...maybe some surface rust in the usual places but not too much and not the deep cut-the-car-apart rust.

A 'Clean" Driver should have just about all parts in place and working...maybe showing some wear and tear.

A few parts might be missing or need replacing on a "Clean" Driver such as a sunvisor, maybe a piece or two of the skirt chrome, a door lock not working, maybe carpet needs to be replaced but floor boards, trunk floor should be clean except for some light surface rust.

If a screwdriver can be pushed through a floor panel, trunk floor, fender, etc.,  it's not a "Clean" Driver.

The car should operate satisfactorily...maybe not a hotty, might need some adjusting but should start, idle, ride, shift OK...with limited exhaust smoke and perhaps little or no oil or fuel leakage.

A "Clean" Driver should have a correct engine through it may not be the original engine...same with the other major components. The hard top should be included or a price reduction is in order.

Paint should be good at "10 feet" or maybe the price adjusted although a good shop can patch paint so that the work will not be seen.

The interior might be a bit worn..the radio might not be original...may need carpet renewing but if the entire interior is bad,  pass or reduce the price. The electrical should be in good order. Bad electrics is a caution sign for me. 

What helps me price a car (might not work for others, not sure if it really works for me) is to start with the current Market Price for a slightly "Better Car", maybe a car that can win a local show trophy, has no major faults, nice paint, good mechanics. This "Starting Price" varies with the location and what "Better Car" means to the buyer but today, I'd say $35,000 or $40,000 might be about right...then as I look at a car, I reduce the Starting Price by what I estimate it will cost to fix, repair, or replace the faulty items on the For Sale car...this can be dangerous if your estimates are unrealistic or if you don't see all the faults.

Needs new paint: maybe knock off $5,000 to $10,000...interior maybe $2,000 or more...rust removal varies greatly depending on what and where it lurks, and this can be expensive. If the rust places are deep and numerous, maybe walk away.

This is not a prefect system but it gives me handle on what the future might hold in the spend-more-money department.
 
Don't rely on the odometer reading...many of these cars have gone around and maybe 60,000 is 160,000...signs of wear might show on the driver seat and the gas pedal, if original.

The definition of a "Clean Driver" and the price reduction system are not original with me. I used these tools when looking and buying a couple of these cars. The first Pagoda I bought was an OK deal...the price of the second car was like "stealing it without a gun" and I'm very happy with it. I did better on the second car because I was lucky and more experienced.

The car you asked about does not come up to my standard. I think you can do better for $25K. When I looked for my second Pagoda, I passed on maybe 500 cars after an Internet or in-person inspection...took me over a year to find the Keeper. Others have shopped even longer.

Finally, I'd prefer to pay a bit more for a cleaner car than go through the work and expense of a fix-up especially when you never really know how much repair is needed until after you own a car.

Good luck,

Richard M, NYC

[Deschodt]

I forgot to mention the turn signal stalk was missing, too... Granted i have no pagoda experience at all, but I've restored other old German cars, and rust is rust... I'm glad to see others agree this is closer to $15K than $25.

The search continues.. Thank you all for the advice, Richard in particular for the detailed explanation. Seems like I'm not out of line...

Not a waste of time though, I learned that if I get a 230, it needs to be a stick. :-) 

[graphic66]

Mileage on the odometer is not always what it seems. Give me about 2 hours and I can make your odometer read whatever you want. Also, work on these cars is way more complicated and expensive than many other cars. You are not going to redo the interior for a couple thousand dollars. If you do it yourself you will be lucky to spend only $5000.00 in parts. That car would be somewhat Ok if you only had 12-15K to spend, but if you have 25K and get a car like this for 12, you are going to run out of money before the car is right, and this car may never be right. It looks like a lot of sins are covered with paint to me.