Author Topic: Brake reassembly problem (Read 10986 times)

seattle_Jerry · « **on:** May 06, 2011, 03:38:29 »

I just had my rear passenger side drum turned and shoes lined to total 9mm thickness. The adjustment cams are at their smallest setting and the emergency brake is off. The drum won't go on.
Do I need to adjust the cable somewhere under the car? Other ideas for the drum not fitting?

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2011, 03:39:32 »

pictures

ja17 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:26:25 »

Hello Jerry,

You can slaken the main brake cable by the little adjustment knob on the emergency brake lever.

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2011, 23:17:20 »

That didn't help though it needed to be done as well. Thanks for the tip Joe.

I think maybe the shoes are not aligned properly. See the angle of the pins in the top view shot. How to fix is the question.

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2011, 23:20:57 »

I have the bell shaped washers on the back of the shoes.

Looking at my before pics...the angled pins were a pre-existing condition

IXLR8 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2011, 01:26:16 »

Hi--

Can you retract the pins back into the wheel cylinder? They look to be a bit extended.

Just a thought....

Joe

ja17 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2011, 04:53:04 »

Good observation Joe,

Yes it looks like the rear cylinder should compress more.

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2011, 18:07:04 »

It can compress more....its just that I cant push the shoes together any closer. It is bottomed out against the slot of the emergency cable hook do-whacker. There is slack in the cable too. But if its bottomed out in that slot...I'm not sure the cable comes into play. Wouldn't the distance between the retaining pin and the innermost portion of that slot be unchangeable? (see pic)

Or is the emergency brake hook supposed to flex at its joint and both of mine are seized?

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2011, 20:31:30 »

~~Eureka! The root cause of the problem was the seized joint on the emergency brake hook~~

Nope even with the hook properly working.

I don't understand what is different between the two sides. The driver's side went together fine. The angle of the pins in still off and while I can get the drum on....it is way too tight to use.

IXLR8 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2011, 23:31:01 »

OK, next, I would check the shoes to make sure you got 113 shoes back from the relining shop.

I assume that you had BOTH right and left rear shoes relined, one fits and one does not. Check that the shoes are the same.

Joe

ctaylor738 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2011, 23:47:01 »

The front (110 420 18 20) and rear (110 420 17 20) shoes are different. The PN is stamped on the shoe. Do you have one of each in the correct position?

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2011, 01:35:47 »

I'm glad you posted those....that was my next stop on the path of likely suspects:

Drivers rear: R110 423 0808 and 1814280508 the second set may be wrong...hard to read might be 180 423 0808 but it sure looks like an 0508

passenger rear: R110 423 0808 TV and R110 423 0708

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2011, 03:42:26 »

I guess the next course of action is to swap passenger and drivers side shoes to establish if the problem is with the shoes or "other"

ctaylor738 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2011, 14:04:39 »

I don't know the history, did the shoes ever work on the car?

Looking at your pictures again, it looks like they just plain don't fit -- as in too wide. The thrust rods should not be canted like that. I would put all four on the floor and do a very close visual comparison.

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2011, 16:43:13 »

I got the car this way and have never driven it...the pads certainly appeared used, but that is no guarantee that they were working to spec...lots of washers were missing and the side I'm having trouble with had its cylinder pins at a funny angle

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #15 on:** May 08, 2011, 21:49:25 »

Its the shoes....I tried the drivers side shoes on the passenger side with all else the same and they fit correctly. The weird part is that the drivers side is the one with the mismatched part numbers (see above) and nether side has the part numbers that were listed as the stock number. It is a 67 if that makes a difference.

IXLR8 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2011, 22:22:52 »

Congratulations on finding the problem!

ctaylor738 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2011, 12:13:31 »

Now the fun begins. I did a brake job on a 230SL in November. In the course of chasing parts, I could only find the shoes available from Mercedes for a list price of $340 apiece. We ended up getting them relined.

But these shoes are used on a variety of 110 and 111 cars according to the EPC so you may be able to find a core pair from a recycler or someone who is parting out a fintail on e-Bay.

Good luck.

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2011, 23:39:18 »

thanks for the list....I forgot about the part where I can't send mine as a core Doh!

I wonder what mine are out of?

ctaylor738 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2011, 01:47:35 »

Dunno. The number won't come up in the EPC. You just missed these on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R113-MERCEDES-BENZ-230SL-BRAKE-SHOES-W113-/320687781003

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #20 on:** May 10, 2011, 17:00:14 »

Jeeze kick a guy while he's down....nice Chuck

...I hate it when I miss stuff like that

john collins · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:32:53 »

I just bought two sets of Meyle brake shoes (complete kits with springs) for my 1965 230SL from autohausAZ for $26.71 each. I have not had a chance to install them yet, so I cannot comment on fitment, but for the price, if there is a problem I can just return them or throw them out!

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2011, 04:56:23 »

rear shoes? Wow! thats cheap...I'll call them

IXLR8 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2011, 18:17:24 »

WAIT--Don't call them!

Those brake shoes are for cars with rear disc brakes.

The emergency brake on the disc brake car is a small set of brake shoes that fit a small drum cast into the rotor.

My suggestion would be to try and find a rear axle for sale--some people have converted to a 3.27 rear axle and still have the old one. Others have upgraded to disc brakes instead of drums.

My 230 has nearly new drums and newly relined shoes; but, if I had to buy a new drum at approximately $1,200 each, I would try for a used rear axle or would convert to rear discs. I would sell my used, servicable drum and just about break even on cost.

Try a posting on Parts Wanted. Also, check with the Benz Dr. (Dan Carron). He always has a good selection of used stuff at a fair price.

Joe

graphic66 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2011, 23:37:47 »

If converting to rear discs make sure to get a proportioning valve also. They can cost more than the axle. You also will need a new master cylinder for the disc brakes. I think a lot of people are holding onto their parts now. They are increasing so quickly in price it is probably one of the few investements keeping up with inflation. A rear axle replacement can get very costly if you replace all the rubber bits and seal, bearings, etc. I just did my 230SL two years ago, a nice improvement over the drums, but not really worth it for that benifit only. I had the dreaded sudden differential failure. Now I somehow ended up with two complete drum brake rear axles, in the bank as they say.

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Author Topic: Brake reassembly problem (Read 10986 times)

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

IXLR8

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

IXLR8

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

IXLR8

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

seattle_Jerry

IXLR8

graphic66