Author Topic: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive  (Read 11058 times)

Wolfmann

  • Guest
5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« on: July 09, 2011, 23:07:03 »
I was lucky enough to drive Mark Turnbull's absolutely outstanding 280 SL today. It is common knowledge that he has converted his car to run a Getrag five speed manual box without any cutting of the body and, if one obtains a spare shaft of some sort (I'm a lawyer - I don't understand these things!) no damage or irreversible change to the original auto unit either. The old box and brace plate are retained should one wish to change back although outside London I can't imagine why you'd want to !

The first gear ratio is perfect and the clutch engagement has just the correct amount of harshness to the bite, the gears are smooth to select and beautifully placed with a relatively short throw (reverse is off to the upper left). The car rips through the rev range, certainly giving its best above 2000 and making an intoxicating exhaust note above 3000 - It just gets better right up to 5000 where I felt compelled to change up as it wasn't my car and the roads were wet and greasy !

The engine really is suited to a manual box and I already regret spending the money I have on having my auto overhauled, then again I do live in London. The car feels far more sprightly than my 230 did although my engine was in poor condition. It is just easier to exploit the quite peaky characteristics of the engine - Don't misunderstand, there is plenty of torque but it just seems to go ballistic between 3 and 5 thousand. We were on a short road with limited time due to a fast approaching storm and no roof but I managed to get the car dropped into fifth and it appeared to be doing well over 70mph at about 2600 revs or thereabouts.

The note from Marks full stainless exhaust system is poetic, rorty but not common or loud. The car handles beautifully with very little body roll (this is my first proper drive in a sorted W113) which did surprise me.

The steering wasn't as precise as I expected but mine steered the same way on my short drive before it was stripped. Towards the end of the drive I had adapted to it. It is just a big change from a "modern" car, and honestly, along with the noisy injection pump is about the only thing that marks the car out as a survivor from the 60's that is approaching 50 years old. I took many pictures of the car. I have some of the greasy bits and the box installation if anyone wants to see them.

Meanwhile I hope you enjoy the pictures of a truly remarkable "as new" example. The rebuild of which has recently been finished. Although it escapes me quite where, Mark insists there are a few little jobs he still wishes to tackle. A perfectionist, I think, also friendly and helpful with a huge knowledge of every weird little point I asked about incuding trim and screw fasteners.

The drive in the SL alone was well worth the 500 mile round trip to Sunderland but Mark had some parts I needed too including a beautifully  re-chromed grille surround. He was also kind enough, with one of his friends, to fit a new length of flanged brake pipe and union to each of those strange little Y shaped brackets on the front brakes that are no longer available. Mine were in a terrible state and one had been sheared off. The other partially crushed.

Thanks for a great day Mark !

« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 18:53:57 by Wolfmann »

Wolfmann

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2011, 23:23:39 »
Four colour shots of an achingly pretty car, thanks Mr Braq !!!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 01:18:44 by Wolfmann »

Wolfmann

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 16:27:53 »
More pictures.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 16:00:17 by Wolfmann »

Wolfmann

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 16:01:25 »
Don't all rush in with opinions, contrary experiences, ideas etc !! ;)

Larry & Norma

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, England, Southampton
  • Posts: 1090
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 16:48:19 »
Maybe we are all in agreement, it is a very pretty car. My 280 is an automatic which I am more than happy with.
I did get to drive Jamie Howard's 230 manual which was also a great drive. I was a a little reluctant to 'welly' it
as a) it was not my car and b) it had the steering wheel on the wrong side and so manual changes took some
getting used to with my right hand. I think all versions of this car are both fun and 'achingly pretty'
Larry
Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2023 Ioniq6
2005 C230
1970 280SL

jaymanek

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2011, 18:26:06 »
I did the conversion and never looked back, the best thing I did to the car!

Garry

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Australia, Victoria, Kyneton and Brisbane Queensland
  • Posts: 5236
  • Audit Committee
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2011, 22:14:47 »
I also did the conversion to get mine back to a 5 speed and it is the best thing that I have done  for the car.

Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

stickandrudderman

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, England, Richmond
  • Posts: 2926
    • http://www.colinferns.com
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2011, 22:48:14 »
And I now have two getrag 265s in stock!!

Khurram Darugar

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2011, 23:35:49 »
Apart from being a proper hands on engineer, Mark is a super nice guy, as im sure many can attest to.  And yes hes a perfectionist!
In terms of exhaust note im not sure how much that has to do with the getrag...... possibly Mark has worked some of his magic on the exhaust too  ;)
What peach that color is aching nice. 
Kay


Wolfmann

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2011, 06:18:56 »
I believe the exhaust is a custom item with a different downpipe arrangement, I know the tone is nothing to do with the gearbox but without the arbitrary shift points of the auto it is easier to "play" the exhaust with the manual box !

I was also amazed at how much attention the car gets out and about, 4 comments in 20 minutes marks out these cars as something very special.

Steven.

Richard Madison

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NY, New York
  • Posts: 1181
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2011, 09:57:29 »
OK, enough worship of this car...it is very lovely...far more so than my own ride...but I do have a question.

The fit of the hood and trunk...does the space seem a bit too much...or is the space line exaggerated by the white color...

or is it that I don't know a correct fit when I see it?

Richard M, NYC

1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

Rick007

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • Netherlands, Noord-Brabant, Breda
  • Posts: 251
  • 250 sl silver/red
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2011, 13:48:59 »
Love the colour and int combination ....is it original ? 

personally i would not have taken a green band in the frontwindow ...but like i said that's personal taste .

 
RICK007
'67 MB 250SL

Wolfmann

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2011, 14:06:42 »
The interior is in original colours and materials I think. The paint is a modern Fiat colour as seen on the new 500 model.

Steven.

mkbull

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2011, 17:05:56 »
Wow -- thanks everyone for the positive comments and special thanks to Steven for the great photos as well as the brief but informative photography lesson.

Not many things on the car are original. Its a 64' 230 with a 280 engine and a BMW gearbox (bet no one has spotted the 15" rims and wheels with limo hubcaps).
I originally medelled the car on photos I seen on the forum of a beatiful horizon blue car from Australia that had a similar cream interior. I then tried a test panel of horizon blue and found the paint to look much darker (more blue) in the flesh than I had expected (perhaps the fabulous photos with Australian sunshine had fooled me) My painter suggested we tone the blue down by adding white but I was concerned that such an approach would leave me with no paint code for the future - eventually we tried some other manufactures colours and i really liked the light blue fiat - its called "cha azure blue".
So we went with that, It is almost embarassing driving the car around with the amount of attention it draws (all positive) and most often people have raved about the colour.
Interior is all original mercedes leathers and carpets although the carpet was bound with bentley saddle leather to give a nice contrast.

Ill try to add more photos of the interior.

Thanks again for the positive comments
Mark

Wolfmann

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2011, 22:32:40 »
One picture of the gearbox installation and another couple of the interior, one showing the contrasting leather carpet edge binding.

Note the position of the handbrake, re-located to the correct side for a RHD car.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 22:47:19 by Wolfmann »

JamesL

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, London, London
  • Posts: 3612
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2011, 13:05:23 »
Mark

I will be first to ask.... will you tell us more about your exhaust set up - who made it, what spec, what cost???
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

Garry

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Australia, Victoria, Kyneton and Brisbane Queensland
  • Posts: 5236
  • Audit Committee
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2011, 22:53:15 »
A few years ago, someone was giong to do a write up of the change of handbrake from left to right side of the transmission tunnel.  Anyone still able to do that?

Garry
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 22:59:21 by Garry »
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

Wolfmann

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2011, 21:04:36 »
I'm sure Mark Turnbull will be able to help you if you send him a PM, he did the conversion himself and he is a pretty helpful chap. Maybe alternatively he could put a guide on this thread ?

santropezblueSL

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2011, 08:57:10 »
Very nice work Mark.  I am curious about the comment on the steering; does this car have power steering?  What tires are you running?  With a good set of modern Michelins or Continentals (my favorite tire for these cars is the Conti) the steering feel on a manual steering 280SL is light and nimble with great feedback.  I just cannot imagine me ever driving a 280SL with power steering.  I just sold one and the difference between power and manual steering is like night and day.  It is very true that these motors love to rev, and that the automatic box never lets the engine rev up.  The manual transmission, manual steering 280SL when properly maintained and set up is a brilliant drive.  (For reference points I also have a BMW M3, a BMW 330i with performance package, and a Lotus Elan for comparison.) If the BMW gearbox conversion can be done as a pure (reversible) bolt on with no cutting of the floor, then I will be doing both of my 280SL's soon.
 
Wow -- thanks everyone for the positive comments and special thanks to Steven for the great photos as well as the brief but informative photography lesson.

Not many things on the car are original. Its a 64' 230 with a 280 engine and a BMW gearbox (bet no one has spotted the 15" rims and wheels with limo hubcaps).
I originally medelled the car on photos I seen on the forum of a beatiful horizon blue car from Australia that had a similar cream interior. I then tried a test panel of horizon blue and found the paint to look much darker (more blue) in the flesh than I had expected (perhaps the fabulous photos with Australian sunshine had fooled me) My painter suggested we tone the blue down by adding white but I was concerned that such an approach would leave me with no paint code for the future - eventually we tried some other manufactures colours and i really liked the light blue fiat - its called "cha azure blue".
So we went with that, It is almost embarassing driving the car around with the amount of attention it draws (all positive) and most often people have raved about the colour.
Interior is all original mercedes leathers and carpets although the carpet was bound with bentley saddle leather to give a nice contrast.

Ill try to add more photos of the interior.

Thanks again for the positive comments
Mark

mkbull

  • Guest
Re: 5 Speed Manual - Test Drive
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2011, 16:34:35 »
Yes the car had power steering and I have fully rebuilt it (not a job I wish to repeat) The rebuild/repair kit is only £50 or so and includes dozens of o rings and washers. I had to make at least two or three special tools just to get the thing apart :P. The power steering is quite precise but presently I think the car needs some wheel alignment setting up , not surprising as I have only set things up by simple tape measurements so far. It does drive in a straight line even with no steering wheel input but seems to need lots of little corrections -steering input. My guess is the caster setting and or toe settings are a bit out.
I am running 15" rims with 205/65/15 Dunlop tyres a modern tyre with high speed rating. This tyre size gives me almost identical rolling dia to stock.

The BMW 5 speed is fantastic - quite definitely the best thing about the drive, I couldn't imagine only having a 4th gear at motorway speeds.


Very nice work Mark.  I am curious about the comment on the steering; does this car have power steering?  What tires are you running?  With a good set of modern Michelins or Continentals (my favorite tire for these cars is the Conti) the steering feel on a manual steering 280SL is light and nimble with great feedback.  I just cannot imagine me ever driving a 280SL with power steering.  I just sold one and the difference between power and manual steering is like night and day.  It is very true that these motors love to rev, and that the automatic box never lets the engine rev up.  The manual transmission, manual steering 280SL when properly maintained and set up is a brilliant drive.  (For reference points I also have a BMW M3, a BMW 330i with performance package, and a Lotus Elan for comparison.) If the BMW gearbox conversion can be done as a pure (reversible) bolt on with no cutting of the floor, then I will be doing both of my 280SL's soon.