230SL with rear seats

[stuartmasson]

Hi guys, hope you can offer me some advice.

Yesterday I was looking at a RHD 1966 230SL automatic with rear bench seats.  It had the hard top roof on and the owner says it also has a soft top.  But based on what I have read about W113s and my (very) limited knowledge, this car shouldn't exist. 

I understood that the rear bench seat was only available in the California model, which didn't come along until the 250SL, and that didn't have a soft top.  Am I completely wrong, or is this car more likely to have been modified at some point?

Many thanks,

stuart

[Ulf]

The California Coupe option was (to my knowledge) introduced within the 250 version and was thus not available before - so this sounds a bit odd to me. Perhaps it is a later modification, but I'm not sure that turning an earlier car into a California, but retaining the soft top (without its storage compartment) was such a great idea. I would certainly take my precautions - unless it's dirt cheap and you need 2 additional seats with no legroom...

[stuartmasson]

Thanks Ulf.  Sounds a bit odd to me, too.  Having just checked the data plate, it seems that it was a February 1965 car, not a 1966 car.  And the seller has just hiked the price by £2,000 in his ad...

[Paul & Dolly]

Stuart,

If you are not familiar with these cars it can be difficult to know what you are looking at - and seeing !

The "california" was without soft top - BUT there are many standard cars around which have both a Hard top, a concealed Soft top, and where the rear "Storage area" has been upholstered to provide slightly padded "seats" - these seats however have no legroom so it is debateable if they are really seats or an upholstered bench.

Does the car in question have any leg room for the described seats ?, and does it have a rear aluminium cover forward of the boot lid to house the Soft top ?

dont give up on it yet - it could just be a misunderstanding of what the car has.


Ask the vendor to explain the soft top storage position and operation to you.

Good luck

Paul

[JamesL]

failing that, if there are pics anywhere, post them here. Someone will diagnose the situation in seconds!

[stuartmasson]

Hi guys, thanks for your responses.

There certainly doesn't seem to be any rear legroom, but having seen the rear of many 2+2s over the years, that didn't really surprise me.

It was difficult to take many good photos as the car is currently at a panel beater's, and had been covered in paint dust and serving as a shelf for soon-to-be-painted parts from other cars in the shop!  However, they cleared it from under the rubble, and I have three photos here which may help:

[twistedtree]

Looks like a custom rear seat to me.

[jameshoward]

It looks custom, I agree. It also has the soft top cover, so there should be a soft top under it. I don't know what the seat design changed in the 230's, but I would have thought that the seats were from a car earlier than a '66 car. I'm sure someone can state when the thicker seat backs came into being.

Might be a good idea to dig out the VIN (on the firewall in the engine compartment) then look at the wiki and find out what month it was made.

[Paul & Dolly]

Stuart,

The soft top should be under the Aluminium Cover, For your clarification here are two pictures of my 250SL (with Upholstered "Bench") showing the soft top cover open and closed.

Keep at it,

As long as the soft top is in the well, it should not be a "wrongun"

Paul

[twistedtree]

That upholstered center arm rest is an add-on too, taking the place of the wooden tray normally found.  As long as the area where the seat is located hasn't been cut and hacked, I don't see it as a problem.  The jump seats can be removed if you want and the carpeted space restored.

Speaking of jump seats, there was an optional factory jump seat oriented sideways behind the passenger seat in some cars, wasn't there?  And I think it had nothing to do with the California Coupe.  But that's not what's in your pictures - I'm just bringing it up to keep this all in context.

[Garry]

The rear seat appears to be an addition by a Previous owner and looks to be easily brought back to original so I would not let that influence you too much on the purchase.

 Meredith in his 'Restorers Guide' states that from August '65 the seats became the thicker type. Others more knowledgable than I may care to comment here but I suspect that it was later than that and the seats in the photo appear to be the early thinner ones.  Here is an example of the only approved optional rear seat and foot well.

[Paul & Dolly]

Peter..

Yes the cerntre console is a tempory addition, I  made, complete with power sockets for the hand lamp, phone, and battery charger.

Unfortunatly a Previous Owner was very keen on Black " leathcloth", and has covered the central wood tray, sunvisors and just about anything else he could with the stuff ! 
I have removed the tray as a pattern for the base of a future console/armrest, which I shall make  in wood over the winter.

The upholstered "bench" is leather though - and easily removed

Paul

[stuartmasson]

Thanks for all your advice, everyone.  Looking at the other photos I took while I was there, the rear seats are probably the least of the car's problems.  It will almost certainly need new floor, sills, arches and a few other patch panels, plus whatever else is lurking underneath.  It seems to be a February 1965 model, which may explain the seat comments people have made.

Thanks again,

stuart

[jameshoward]

You may want to get familiar with these guys: sls-hh.de (based in Hamburg).

They offer very good service and as an MB club member you should be able to wangle 10% discount. May also be worth checking out the cost of the parts you need thru MB direct, who will also give you club discount. You can access the EPC via most computers via the net. I am afraid that I am rubbish at making head or tail of the EPC mostly  because I can't access it from my machine (runs 64-bit Vista) hence can't get familiar with it. Mercedes Benz at Poole have or had a very knowledgeable classic car parts dept.

You may find you add sills to your list, also. May be worth trawling for a post by Tosh about his restoration of last year and what he found. It's well documented with good photos.

[JamesL]

Ask for Mervyn at MB in Poole if you go that route

Here's the threa JamesH mentioned (thats for the reminder J  )
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15302.0

[Larry & Norma]

Mervyn has retired Tosh!

[JamesL]

 

[Paul & Dolly]

Stuart,

It is worth you getting familiar with different cars and their prices before making a final decision, these cars do rust really well, but they can also be well restored if done correctly - so do not be put off before seeking knowlegdable advise, if you can find it local to you.
Thases are comparisions of some cars I looked at during my search this year....both of these were up for the same price..

good luck

Paul