113 camshaft specs needed 09

[n/a]

old camshaft went down on 2 lobes, could not find an "09" anywhere as stated in Hayaes manual...then I had online-mercedes tell me that 09 is incorrect for my car 71 280sl and that they could ship me and 08 which is correct according to their books...can anyone confirm what is correct...there is a 10 degree difference between the 08 and the 09, thanx

[Cees Klumper]

Here's some old wisdom that I compiled from the Yahoo! site a long time ago - thanks again to Frank Mallory and Peter Lesler for this information. "08" I believe is the lower-performance US-spec cam. I just bought a new Euro cam for my '69 280 SL for around $500 myself, here in Europe:

"Somebody recently mentioned that they had a performance camshaft for their 280sl. Where is this available? Also, what are the differences between the US and European versions as far as engine performance is concerned? Did they change pistons, camshaft, ignition and timing and fuel injection pump settings?

Frank Mallory: The Euro 280 SL and 300 SEL/8 have camshafts that give about 10hp more than the USA 280 SL/300 SEL. Injection pump settings are also different, and USA cars also have add-ons such as pump cutoff and ignition timing control, but the basic engines are essentially the same. I have been trying to find a Euro camshaft at a reasonable price for a number of years without success.

Pete Lesler says: Believe it or not but the Euro cam really makes a difference at the upper range of RPMs. I wiped out two exhaust lobes of my only "09" cam two years ago and replaced it with a US spec 280 SE cam. A big negative difference. I found out that the 230, 250 and early 280 cams all use the same style bearings and can be interchanged. The 230 cam is the hottest cam of them all. The last 280SE cam is the mildest. The "09" is the part number stamped on the end of the cam (facing the firewall). This cam was used on Eurospec 280 SL and most 300 SEL-2.8 engine cars. It gave 10 more horsepower and a higher usable rpm range. Its complete part number is 180-051-0935.

Frank: you probably don't want the "09" cam for your '70 280 SL. Later cars used a camshaft with the same profile, marked "02". The 02 cam uses different cam bearings than the 09, and possibly that cam is still available from Euro MB dealers.

Pete Lesler: In response to the enquiries regarding the "09" cam. I found it in a US spec 300 SEL 2.8. At least I believe it was a US spec car as I found it in a bone yard. I bought the complete engine and drive train. When I pulled off the valve cover, I was amazed to see the "09" cam. All Euro 280 SL's and 300 SEL's with the early M130 engine used the '"09" cam. Later engines with the differently shaped combustion chambers and the shorter, squarer intake manifold used the later style "02" cam with different cam bearings. The later cam is the only one currently available from the factory. The complete part number is 114-051-0201. The cam lists for over $900, not to mention the cost of the different bearings, should you need them. So those extra ponies are mighty expensive indeed. The Euro cars also used a different fuel injection pump which was calibrated to run richer throughout the range and without the pesky shut down solenoid at the back of the pump."

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[n/a]

Cees...thanx for your response....engine coming out this week....trying for 4 days now to get price and avail on 87.5 (.040 oversize pistons/rings and rest of parts to rebuild) the only response I get is that they will get back to me...getting worried , can not bore block oversize until pistons are in hand...also head is marked 280SE/A  ?  M130,  I have never seen this one before..do not know if this engine is a 9.0 or 9.5 compression...I will be milling head .010 anyway...also I think the recommendation is to get the first oversize on the valve guides and ream head accordingly...does anyone on this board know where I can order all parts for this engine???  thanx

[Cees Klumper]

Hello 71280SL - I got my 87.5 second oversize pistons last summer from Will Samples in Dallas, Texas (see vendor database) within a couple of days, at a cost of (then) $690 for all six, including the rings, wristpin etc. I also got, at the same time, oversize valve guides, seals, new intake and exhaust valves, and all the other parts that needed to be replaced for the block and head.
Prices probably have gone up since then due to the dollar/euro exchange rate movement and 'the usual' price increases. I am sure Dan Caron (the Benz Barn, Port Lambton, also in the vendor database) can get the parts for you as well at a good price. Frankly I would think all SL specialized suppliers including of course MB, should be able to supply these without any problem. Common opinion has it that the blocks can be sleeved.
The compression ratio should be cast in the head on the side, halfway. Low compression heads are probably not all that common. And AFAIK the 280 SE/A designation is normal, but I'm not sure. If the head is not warped, you're better off not milling it to save material for when it might be really necessary.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[n/a]

Cees, again thanx you for response, the info is great..;.SSimports bad email address, also my head 280SE/A   NOT marked w/ 9.0 or 9.5 , I have to believe combustions chamber same,,if I purchase 87.5mm flat tops and mill top of block .010 and cyl head.010 I should wind up with 9.8-9.9 compression..the thinking is with the expense involved I should get some increased power as a final result...now where do I get offset key so cam can be timed correctly..now tricky question, and I want to be prepared for this, I am buying 1st oversize valve guides and I see the very critical prep for installing these, does head have to be reamed oversize before installing..I am going to a race shop for head work but am concerned with breakage of parts or cracked head in the process and any insight I can provide will put me at ease. also I notice u also went with the max oversize pistons...how is your performance now..... thanx.

[ja17]

Hello 71280SL,
It is not common practice to automatically go to oversize guides. Some suppliers offer and intermediate size (between standard and 1st). Yes you would have to ream the head if you choose to go to 1ST oversize. Most shops measure the valve guide bores and the guides to get the correct interference fit between the two. The pressure needed to "press" the new guides in during replacement can also a indication of clearence. Different shops use different methods. Make sure to supply all the correct specs for your shop no matter what they say they have. The BBB and the "Technical Data Booklets" have all the specs and allowable wear limits.
Normally the compression number is between spark plug three and four, right above the nine digit Merceces number on these 280 SE/A cylinder heads.
These engines were designed to run on 96 octane fuels. Increasing your compresson may increase the octane requirements of your engine. In other words, if you increase your compression and then have to de-tune your car to run on standard premium (93 octane) then you have gained nothing and may even cause other tuning problems.
Performance can be improved in less damaging ways such as the hot cmshaft, porting and polishing the head and extrude honing the intake manifold.
A lot of machine shops take the machine everything approach. The problem here is these heads and blocks are extremely expensive. Once they are cut to their limits they are scrap! When it comes to milling heads and blocks flat my advice is cut only if needed, and then, only what is needed.
Be sure to get the right head gasket the 280-SL engine had two different early and late (not interchangable). Save the old head gasket for comparison and use the engine # to order the parts.
Offset camshaft sprocket keys can still be ordered from Mercedes. The BBB states that using these will usually not make a noticable difference!
Always replace the oil pump and crankshaft chain sprocket and spacer ring during a total engine rebuild along with the usual items.

Good luck, keep us up to date!

 
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Cees Klumper]

I had to go with maximum oversize pistons due to cylinder wear. Engine not running yet, although it is very close to being done - I don't have any spare time to work on it until April. I am also installing the Euro-spec camshaft. I am expecting quite a difference in performance between a freshly rebuilt engine with oversize pistons and Euro cam, compared to my old worn-out, uneven compression 280 SE engine with the milder camshaft. Better brace myself (haha - I do have the automatic with the 3.69 ratio rear differential, so it's never going to be really fast).

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[n/a]

A 1971 USA 280SL will have "05" coded into the back of the cam !!

[knirk]

Yesterday I adjusted the valve clearance and checked my camshaft with a mirror just to confirm a 01 or 05 code. To my surprise it was a 08 (used in the 280SE). I have seen in the discussions that the bearing size changed at some time. At SLS they have the 09 for about $ 600, but new bearings are close to $ 500. So before I decide - anybody out there with a 09 camshaft have the bearing size so I can check if I need to change them as well?

Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway

[knirk]

I tried to measure the diameter of the camshaft bearings, but that was very hard without taking the camshaft out. On the foot of the bearing pedestal the following number was inscripted: 114 051 0016.

Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway

[Cees Klumper]

Per - I am pretty sure my rebuilt engine has an 08 camshaft. I never did get around to installing my euro (09 code I suppose) camshaft that I got from SLS last January. I will measure the diameter of the cam bearing journals next time I am at the garage.

It's true that the hotter cam produces more HP, however the extra power comes in only from about 5,000 RPM and up. There is an original factory diagram in "Vom Barock zur Pagode" by Gunter Engelen, page 185. It shows that, at 5,500 RPM, the difference is 15 HP; at 6,200 RPM it's about 20 HP. But, to my surprise, it also shows that, up to 4,500 RPM, there is hardly any difference; in fact, below that point the milder cam is shown to produce slightly more power! So only if one really revs the engine quite hard, as in traffic-light hot-rodding, or racing or rally driving, and at top speed does the euro cam 'pay off'.

I suspect that other tuning details such as the valve & ignition timing, fuel/air mixture settings, state of the linkages, engine compression and all of those other things, will influence performance more than the cam.

Yesterday I floored my car once more and, driving top-down, I very rapidly reached close to 115 MPH / 185 KPH with the car still accelerating when I let off the gas. For me this is hot enough!

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[knirk]

Cees,
Thank’s for the engine data, and you are quite right. The acceleration and torque from the engine still impresses me every time. I think it was a small psychological chock discovering the “08” number that right away made me want the 09 camshaft – even when I really don’t need it. If you remember next time it would be nice to find out if the bearings are OK for a 09 cam. After a final tune-up today the engine runs great, and I am shortly finished with the break in and ready to hit the high revs!


Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway

[Cees Klumper]

I measured the diameter of the (3 large) main bearing journals of my camshaft from SLS. It's 47.83 mm. The closest I can find in the Technical Data Manual is 47.875 for the intermediate size (there appear to be three different sizes bearings: normal, 1st repair and 2nd repair). You would need to measure very closely what bearings you have now if you want to re-use them, and have the camshaft match that in accordance with the prescribed clearance between the cam and the bearings: 0,025 mm.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[knirk]

Cees,
Excellent! Thanks for your help.

Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway