Pagodas in the Press.

[Wolfmann]

It is nice to see articles in praise of our cars in Classic Mercedes and Classic and Sports Car magazines even if the detail is not always quite correct regarding the differences between the models. As a 230SL owner I get mildly frustrated at the only real difference apparently being an "inferior" power plant with the 280 being a superior vehicle. As we all know there are many differences and having driven many examples of each I do not feel that the performance difference is significant. It seems to depend on the state of the individual example rather than the size of the engine in my experience. David Sutherland (in my opinion) got it right in his Classic Mercedes article when he concluded that it simply wasn't worth paying  a lot more money for a 280. I do feel, partisan or not that the quoted and actual price difference between the models is a hype generated phenomenon rather than being indicative of any superiority. The detail and old world charm of the 230 and early 250 models for me is the most attractive thing although wheel trims, door cards and the other small differences may not be that significant to others they are important to me as is the extra boot space liberated by the vertical spare tyre in my early 230 as I like to carry my photographic equipment and various tools and cleaning stuff around with me as well as weekend away luggage.
The main point though is surely if one wanted a true sports car you wouldn't start with a W113, they are about beauty, poise, elegance and character rather than burning rubber. I drove my "underpowered" W113 230SL a full 750 miles from Basingstoke to Sunderland and back in a Weekend with the roof down about 6 weeks ago and thoroughly enjoyed the experience cruising at 70-80 mph, I did not find the engine lacking in any respect and the car performed flawlessly. Mark Turnbull (he of the five speed gearbox conversions) who I was visiting drove the car and reported no significant difference between it and his 280 engined 230, indeed he was unable to lose me when I was following his 280 down some local twisty bits at a fair lick despite his superior engine and manual five speed against my 230 auto.

Every article seems to mention Silchester Pagoda as the ultimate restorer and supplier of these vehicles and this is frankly irritating especially when, inevitably, one of their cars is photographed and billed as being a correct and beautiful restoration. Nice cars but hardly correct in my view. Of course for those that have the money it may not matter and I have no personal objection to what they do however when they are held up as the exemplars of our car models I do get a little concerned.

I guess, ultimately though, any publicity is good publicity and this can only help the values of our vehicles and encourage others to invest thus ensuring more examples are restored and or preserved. That has to be a good thing !

Steven.

[Alf]

Hi Steven. I agree with a lot of what you say. I have never driven a 230 but i think the difference between a good 230 & 280 will be small compared to the difference between a good one and a bad one. As a 280 owner i never get annoyed by journos mentioning the 'superior' engine  but have got really p***ed off when they trot out the lazy comment that he 280 is a softer car with less sporty suspension  . Thankfully this article didn't fall into that trap.

cheers

[Wolfmann]

Hi Alf,

Point taken, I don't really perceive any "softness" regarding the 280 suspension in the cars I have driven, my car has new suspension and bushes and feels firm although it still has the body roll that comes as standard with all of them! A good 280 feels slightly livelier off the mark but I find the free revving nature of the "inferior" 230 engine makes up for any "deficiency" in the mid range. It as as you say, good examples are very close. When I got my 230 the engine was shot and one of the pistons turned out to be cracked right down the skirt where it had been impacting a valve due to the head having been skimmed to below minimum thickness. The engine was gutless and wouldn't even happily drag the car up a mild gradient in top. With a full rebuild and new head it really is a lovely responsive (thirsty) little unit and everyone that drives her thinks she is a "peach".

Whatever the slight performance difference may be in a drag race in these nearly 50 year old cars, in the real world on real roads between good examples it is slight.

As I said earlier, if one wanted an out and out road burning sports car there are far better places to start than with a W113, that however is simply not the point of these cars. I have never had such (often embarrassing) attention and positive comments directed towards any car I have owned exotic or not, these comments even come from kids whose parents weren't born when the cars came out. Truly amazing !

S.

[Flyair]

I think that most of us agree that comparing or -even worth- opposing 230,250 and 280 is senseless. These are the same cars, where a normal evolutionary changes were applied. But basically it is the SAME vehicles. Putting a larger engine as the time went by used to be a normal practice in many cars, MB or others (only now downsizing became fashionable). I find that even attempts to compare Gullwing with Pagoda or W107 and Pagoda are risky and usually a ate of time. Who would pay attention to somebody that would said that Pagoda was superior to a Gullwing because it had - say - alloy rings option or disc brakes? Or. to the contrary, that W107 was better, because it had electronic injection as opposed to the mechanic one in Pagodas?

As it was said in one of previous threads, media require sharp contrasts and some journalists cannot work without simple arguments, style: mine is longer and stronger than yours.

I think that all that counts is the owner's satisfaction and feeling that we can enjoy a truly superior car that made its (her?) place in the automotive history.

230,250 or 280? As long as it (she?) is nicely restored and provides enjoyment to me (as wells to my family or even to simple watchers….) that's what make sense to me.

 

[Paul & Dolly]

I learnt a long time ago not to believe  what is in the "press"

Most journalists write what their paymasters require, especially in these days of product placement.

I am pretty dismissive of any expert that has not actually owned one of our cars, and I think it better to formulate  ones own ideas based on information gained from forums like this one.

Years and pounds (both types) ago, I owned a Lotus Europa, and an Eclat for many years and miles, they were universally slagged off by those who had never owned such cars , and probably never would or could.

For me the Pagoda is a car of style and beauty, from an age when Mercedes Benz was run by Engineers.
The differences are a matter of individual preference, but dont you just love sitting in it, and looking at that lovely "deco" type dashboard, before blasting down a country lane in the open air - listening to the engine and exhaust note................

Keep well

Paul

[Alf]

Yup!

[Cees Klumper]

I'd just like to quote Bette Midler here: "If size doesn't matter, I'll have the bigger one, thank you!"

[Flyair]

Cees….. Frankly

[Flyair]

but seriously…. I think that it is great that Pagodas still create such emotions and debates. Even among journalists of doubtful intentions

[Garry]

Having owned both a 280Sl and a 230SL up until mid this year, I don't think there is much difference in either car other than what is in the eye of the beholder.  I think the 230SL and early 250Sl  have nicer bling with the wheel trims and door handles etc and I think the rounded dash of the later car is nicer.
 
 As far as power goes, my 280 was 5 speed and the 230 is Auto so hard to do a fair comparison, but given I don't race cars, the pleasure of driving either was just as nice for different reasons, the smile on my face the same in either car and the joy of ownership equal in both cases.

Is there a difference in value, I don't really think so if you take two absolute top of the line restored cars, they are both going to get top dollar. It will come down to the eye of the beholder in which one they prefer. Some people are easily convinced that bigger is better. I think most of the world is coming to realise that it isnt necessarily so.

Garry

[Markbhai]

I think it comes down to this one question...

Is there anyone on this forum who doesn't like the car, regardless of variant?




I did't think so.

M

[Flyair]

Amen

[Wolfmann]

I'd just like to quote Bette Midler here: "If size doesn't matter, I'll have the bigger one, thank you!"

Haa Cees, I'll take the pretty one !!