"Free" 280 SL that has been sitting for decades...What am I looking at?

[Tremelune]

A friend of my father's has a 1969 280 SL (dark green on tan) blocking space in his garage. The car needs serious (auto) transmission work (I believe quoted at something like $5k several years ago). It has been sitting for something like 20 years without running. It was running, the transmission went, and it sat in a garage thereafter. The paint is dull but could be brought back. There is rust under the rockers, but nothing scary (although this was 3 years ago when he last looked). He wants to just give it to us. We have a week to figure out if we want it. It's implicit that we would get the car going and not just flip it for profit.

We are both decent wrenches, but neither of us have a place to work on the car. As such, any significant work would need to be done by a professional shop, and would probably have to be a specialist that knows these cars inside and out. I think he could put $10k into it and have a $20k car on the other side that was pleasant to drive, but I'm just ballparking wildly after an hour of research on these things. Also, the $10k might wind up coming out of my pocket, and I don't really have a place for the car in my stable. The goal isn't to maximize profit on a sale, but I have more favorable money pits in mind than this particular car.

My immediate thought was to put a manual transmission in it, but I don't know the ins and outs of the Getrag 265 or ZF whatever. What should I expect to pay for fully swappable 5spd with all the bits? What should I expect to pay a mechanic for me to drive in with the tranny in the trunk, and drive away with the tranny pushing the car?

Is it reasonable to expect this engine to need no major work after sitting dead for so long? It sounds like it will already cost several thousand to get the motor running and the fuel system in a clean, sustainable state. Once the car is drivable, I'm sure we'll then find out how well the brakes don't work, the suspension is tired, and the alignment is way off, etc...Would it be unwise to try and got the car started/moving as-is, for the purpose of seeing what else is/isn't working on the car?

My big fear is that it will cost thousands to get the car drivable, and we may then find out that every other component on the car is failing, and suddenly the endeavor will not be fun...Any recommendations on what to look for on a non-running W113 that would cost real money to repair?

[zoegrlh]

Anytime you get a "deal", it may not be such a deal.  However, engine work (if you don't have to rebuild), and trans work (you know you have to do that), if that's all there is, should not be that costly assuming body is in good condition, and interior is good shape.  As for new/rebuilt trans, most likely will not find one, especially the ZF 5 speed, (very rare), then I say take the car.  If you find out that it is too much of a project for you, there is a market for these cars, a big market overseas.  So I say go for it.

[w113dude]

As already mentioned engine and transmission work is not your biggest problem (as long as engine turns) with help of a place like this forum you can do a most of the work yourself, having done a few complete projects such as this the one thing that you should look for is RUST this would determine the amount of work that's really involved to make it roadworthy, some images would help for better assessment.

BDW if you do end up doing the restoration I do have a good spare transmission.

Good luck.

[stickandrudderman]

What a nice dilemma!
Your big problem as far as I can tell is that you don't have the space for the car which precludes you from doing it up yourself over time.
Handing the project to a proffessional could be a bottom-less pit.
Considering converting it to a manual from auto would only compound your financial exposure IMHO. Having the transmission rebuilt would prob99 be the last of your worries.
Being obliged not to flip it for profit doesn't help!
I think in your shoes I would decline to own the car but would offer to help find it a new home for some consideration.

[Flyair]

since the car comes for free and you seem to like the idea to bringing it back to fe en enjoying driving it, how about taking it to a reputable restoration shop for an assessment. It will cost you some bucks, but this way you will be able to get the picture and make up your mind. Otherwise, if you cannot afford the renovation, you will get a few thousands from part buyers, maybe that restoration shop itself. I hope however that the restoration option would prevail and that soon you will show us pictures of your newly pampered and shiny Pagoda.

[mdsalemi]

From a practical point of view, if you were to do some work yourself, sounds like it might be a nice hobby.

Without a place to work on it though--just relying on pros, as they say in Brooklyn, "Fuhgeddaboutit".  You will absolutely positively spend many thousands of dollars on this and it could very well be a big money pit for you.

I got a "free" 280SL, too, one that lived for 10 years as a daily driver on Long Island; 5 years as occasional transportation, and then put away untouched for nearly 15 years.  I haven't added up the bills, from 10 years ago, and don't want to.  It was a lot to get it going, even if you discounted by 50% and just created a driver.  I also saw a 230SL recently that has sat for 20+ years.

Did you hear about the guy who got a 280SL for free and paid too much?

If you had a garage somewhere, and had the time and money to work on it yourself great--but you said you don't.  That's the big issue.

[Bonnyboy]

I just undertook a similar venture - the car wasn't free but initial price of admission and payment terms were reasonable as I bought it from my Dad.  With the help of this forum I did the basics, fuel - brakes - rust repair - assembly - tires - lots of electrical and cosmetic freshening.   The rust repair was started but stalled after the initial $10,000 ran dry (20 yrs ago).  The rust wasn't thought to be a big deal so $10,000 was thought to be more than enough to redo the entire car - it turned out that it wasn't even enough to do the rockers etc. correctly.   So needless to say the car sat in a disassembled and mostly unfinshed state for 20 yrs in less than favourable conditions and new rust took hold in some places and existing rust kept on creeping.   

If you need to take this car to a "professional" shop you will be hurting fairly quickly. 

I spent 250+ hours and a few thousand dollars so far to get my car running and looking good from 5'.  100% of the work was done by myself at my leisure in my garage with a hoist and all the toys (welders, air tools, power tools, time).  No major engine work, no tranny work and no rear end work so far and the paint touchups were done with a spray bomb as a stop gap.     

Even if the shop could do the work on my car in say 1/2 the time at say 125 hours, that is still $10,000 in just labour at current rates and the rockers were already done.  All of the rust repair pieces are available from K&K but the guys putting them back need to know how to do the work properly.  The rockers / sills / floors / front and rear wheel well areas could set you back several thousand in parts and another several thousand in labour.  I have seen two "professional" restorations that were done wrong because the guys didn't know the right sequence to reassembly.

I'm going out on a limb here but do not see the signs of "mad passion" for the car in your email.   I suggest that you offer to help sell the car for your Dad's friend and count yourself lucky for not taking this on on.     If you had your own garage and were going to do it yourself I would have different advice but restoring a rusty car through your VISA card could get really expensive really quick.   

[Tremelune]

Indeed, I hear my own sentiments being echoed. I'm of the opinion that anything without rust can be fixed, but you still have to be motivated by the goal of the finished project and what that is worth to you. I guess we'll give a hard eyeballing and decide what we'd be wise/willing to spend.

[mdsalemi]

The level of rust is important, but it all can be fixed.  I had it done. Depends on your appetite, budget, etc.  There are some very expensive mechanically-related things on these cars that don't relate to rust.  Price out a professional engine rebuild.  Add up all the components to totally redo the brake system.  Add a new transmission to the mix--with about a dozen hours of labor in and out.

I had a lot of rust repair done, and a lot of commensurate body work. It was just one more thing to add to the strong sucking sound of that large vacuum pulling money.  But it did not overshadow the mechanical expenses.  Just added a nice balance to everything. 

[franjo_66]

I can only comment that the rust repair and subsequent body work on my 230SL was by far th emost expensive cpmponent of my restoration.

However I did have rust in the subframes, rear arches, front fenders, floor pan, trunk, etc........yes it was all fixed properly at a professional body shop and they are not cheap here in Australia ! I think the degree of expense will depend on the level/quality of repair that you want. I went for the full frame-off route with all body work using lead-wiping and hand-filed finishing. And that costs a lot  :'(
But in my eyes the end result was more than worth it !

Best of luck with it all and I hope that it all goes as well as it can !

[mdsalemi]

I can only comment that the rust repair and subsequent body work on my 230SL was by far th emost expensive cpmponent of my restoration.

However I did have rust in the subframes, rear arches, front fenders, floor pan, trunk, etc........yes it was all fixed properly

In Michigan, extremely high quality painting, bodywork is charged out at about $40-$50 per hour labor.  This is, on average, about half the going hourly rate for commensurate mechanical work.  My debacle with my soft top latching this summer was done by the body shop at one place at $45 per; a friend just got a quote this week on paint refinish on parts of his 911 Porsche, and it was at $40 per. These are different places specializing in high end collector cars. Relative to some outrageous price increases in mechanical parts (such as parts for a 230SL engine rebuild...) the body work isn't too bad.

All that being said, a great paint job takes a lot of hours--but still takes those hours whether or not you have already dealt with rust and sheet metal repair.

Franjo, I did not have subframe rust--just some large areas of sheet metal like rear clip and arches.

[Kayvan]

Even if you get a SL for free you wont make money on a restoration

Having said that, I drove my SL for 15 years after swapping in junk yard parts, having basic canvas top put on and saddle soaping interior & compounding paint

Looked decent

Then spent $100K restoration after 20th year.

[Flyair]

The fact is that no matter what we do and what we pay, the real winners are MB part producers and restoration shops.
What's left for us is paying invoices, get concerned with quality and permanent dissatisfaction with issues we cannot address (missing parts, bad work etc etc.)
On the bright side, we have summer season enjoyment (provided the summer is good and restores met deadlines).

However, do we expect reciprocation from children for the love we give them? not to mentions wives and other loving ones? 

Ah, I forgot one all-year-long positive aspect of owing a Pagoda: we are part of the WonderCommunity of pagoda SL Group…. and this is priceless