Turn signal relay '69 280SL

[awolff280sl]

I have been trying to find the turn signal relay on my car, but I can't seem to see it or even feel it. I have been looking under the driver's side dash, behind the tach, above the hood release lever, essentially that whole area, using a mirror as well, but I can't seem to find it. I have been looking for a silver cylinder, but maybe that's not correct. I have had the car since 1980 so I don't think it's been changed. I assumed that it would be more easily visible without taking other things apart.
Can someone point me in the right direction?

[66andBlue]

Andy,
take a look at the photo that I posted. You can see the round relay (aluminum can) just on the right edge.
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=17491.msg121140#msg121140

[awolff280sl]

thanks Alfred, but my car has no relay there. The large braket with the bakelite connectors is identical to yours, but the end of it, where the relay mounts, is empty.
I have seen a couple of reports of the relay being found behind/under the tach, ie up on shelf there. I will have to disassemble some stuff and make some room to get up and in there and see.
 

[w113dude]

I don't have a 280sl, but on my car this unit is the relay as well as a hazard switch. Do you have this on your car?

[awolff280sl]

Dude, yes. thank you.
do you know where to find any documentation on this unit? I can't find too much about it on this site.

[w113dude]

What do you need to know?

[awolff280sl]

I have not yet seen any info that confirms that the hazard flasher also incorporates the turn signal relay. How are you able to confirm that on your car "this unit is the relay as well as a hazard switch"?
Speaking with Gernold, he tells me that there should be a separate turn signal relay apart from the hazard flasher unit.
Interestingly, Millers, for example, sells 2 different turn signal relays:
#54-2130: ALL 230 & 250SL'S AND 280SL UP TO CHASSIS # 005607   (this incorporates my particular car)
#54-2131B: FOR 280SL FROM CHASSIS # 005608.
I find no documentation to indicate that the presence of a hazard flash unit negates the need for a flasher (turn signal) relay.
I cannot determine by ear where the turn signal "clicking" is coming from, but I don't feel any vibrations from the hazard unit when I ,put my finger tips on it.
So, I don't know if my car has a separate turn signal relay, and if it does, I'd like to know where it is.

[Benz Dr.]

Pull the switch out on the 4 way flasher and feel for the clicking it should make. If that's the source, then it's only for that system which means you have two relays and you will need to keep looking for the other one.

[66andBlue]

Andy,
what is the VIN of your car? I remember Achim once posting that after VIN 012089 all 280SL had the emergency flasher relay as a standard item and I believe those do not have the relay for the turn signal, that is, the aluminum can - but I am not absolutely sure about that.
Earlier USA 280SL (but not European cars) cars had an emergency flasher installed either by the dealer or already in the factory. This emergency flasher works in conjunction with the turn signal relay. It is shown on the left in my photo. The one on the right is the later style flasher relay (which may or may not require the turn signal relay?) with a knob that has a smaller red center. It also came in two flavors, illuminated as shown and not-illuminated. The knob on the left has a 5mm thread, the one on right has a 7mm ID because the illuminated stem is wider. The Bosch p/n of the illuminated relay on the right is: 0 335 240 002.
My early 280SL has the emergency flasher on the left and also the round turn signal relay.  I know for sure that the one on the right will not work together with the turn signal relay, the only flash it does create results from the short it will produce - I don't think I need to tell you why I know this.  
Also note that the relay shown by Shaun has 8 pins and may not be correct for our cars.  But I am curious what its p/n is because the knob with the larger red center is NLA and very difficult to find.

[awolff280sl]

Doc, pulling the knob out on the flasher I can feel the clicking on the knob. Thing is, with the knob pushed in I also feel the clicking in the knob when working my directional signals...
Alfred, my VIN is 005494. The flasher knob I have is the one on the right with the smaller red center which illuminates with each flash.

I'm thinking that my emergency/hazard unit MUST incorporate the relay.
If this is indeed the case, I'd like to know if this relay is mostly thermo-mechanical (like the aluminum can). From what I understand, the thermo-mechanical relays are heat sensitive/voltage sensitive/watt sensitive.

Bottom line: I'd like to substitute a modern electronic flasher relay to time my turn signals and hazard flashing, while still preserving the original illuminated hazard knob.
Substituting an electronic relay for the aluminum can appears to be well-documented on the forum, but doing this with an all-in-one hazard flasher/relay seems to be uncharted territory.

[71Beige280SL]

Alfred,

I do not know how you do it but, your pictures are the best. Always very clear and descriptive. Thank you for taking the time. You are extremely helpful to novices such as myself.

[66andBlue]

...
Alfred, my VIN is 005494. The flasher knob I have is the one on the right with the smaller red center which illuminates with each flash.
I'm thinking that my emergency/hazard unit MUST incorporate the relay.
Bottom line: I'd like to substitute a modern electronic flasher relay to time my turn signals and hazard flashing, while still preserving the original illuminated hazard knob.....

Andy,
if you do have the same relay that I show on the right then you do have an electronic relay - but better pull it out and check the p/n (MB p/n 001 544 95 32 / Bosch p/n 0 335 240 002)! However, it is NOT original to your car (it is not a European 280SL, correct?), the relay on the left is but you also need the round thermo-magnetic controller (aluminum can) to have functional turn signals and emergency flasher. A previous owner must have changed the circuit already.
Below are the circuit diagrams from the technical manual.
Is there anything wrong with your current relay??

[awolff280sl]

Alfred,
I sincerely thank you for taking interest and your help with this.
I do need to get in there and check the leads since it has been "jiggle dependent" lately as far as the hazard function is concerned. The turn signal are ok.

The car is US, and since I've owned it since 1980 that would mean that any previous owner(s) would have gotten in there while the car was relatively young. Or maybe the dealer did it?

Thanks for the part numbers, and the info that this unit (if it is the one I have) is electronic. Should the unit ever go bad, does the replacement accommodate the original pull knob?

As far as pulling it out: have you done this from behind the dash without pulling out the tach? I figure that I can remove the holding nut on the stem and then pull it out by its wire harness.  Putting it back through the dash could be tricky.

[66andBlue]

Andy,
glad to be of help - believe me, I know how frustrating electrical problems can be.
The relay without knob is still available from Mercedes (about $175!) and some vendors, just Google the part number. AutohausAZ used to sell it but now it shows as "back ordered". http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=o1y4qz2q1k4btx551lq4mtuu&partnumber=001%20544%2095%2032
Normally it does not come with the knob so keep your old one!
When you get in there make sure to disconnect the battery! There is indeed very little room between the instrument center cluster and the light switch, perhaps 1-1/2" at best, and not much more in the back where the tachometer cable runs across. I would take the tachometer out, at least you then can see where things are.
I have seen instructions for retrofitting a car with the emergency flasher and one of them uses the 8-pin connector shown in the post by  w113dude. The extra two pins in the front are used for additional trailer turn signal lights, but when installed in a W113 car those are not used and are insulated.

[awolff280sl]

I had hoped you wouldn't have mentioned taking out the tach, but I think I'll try getting the unit in and out without removing the tach. I can always pull it subsequently. Maybe I can ease it back through the dash with the help off a fine wire around the stem pulled through the dash.
 I'll post an update when I'm done. No breath holding, please.
Thanks again.

[awolff280sl]

I was able to replace the relay/flasher behind the dash without having to pull the tach. Not terribly difficult in the end, but somewhat painful for the right hand and lower back.
In addition to curing the flakey flasher behavior, the turn signals are not blinking quite as quickly and the clicking is not as harsh as before.

[66andBlue]

Congrats!