Brake and fuel lines and hoses on a 1964 230sl

[getsmart]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if the specifications (sizes of hose, lines and fittings) exist anywhere for all the brake and fuel lines and hoses ? Are they metric or imperial ?
I've measured 3 different size lines/pipes at around 10, 8 and 4.8mm...
Seems problematic to try and order these from OS suppliers. ie...they arrive coiled up and some I'm having difficulty identifying
Was thinking of making my own or perhaps getting them made here in Aus...
If anyone has had them made or made them I'd like to hear your experience....
I have access to a good quality flaring tool

Rgds, Joe

[w113dude]

Hi Joe,

I just checked my lines, they are exactly that, 4.8mm for the brakes 10mm for fuel and 8mm for return fuel, The best tool (in my opinion )for shaping would be the spring like device that the line goes in to to bend without kink, (see photo) they are available in all dia so you can do them all, I found those to be the best, as for the flares it would be best to cut the section the you need and take it to a brake shop and let them do the flares for you, the brake lines have to be double flare, the cheap  flaring tools will don't do a good job unless you have a good one and know exactly how to do it right, it took me a good half dozen times before I was able to get it right. the set that I have is Kent and is a very good one.

[getsmart]

Thanks again my reliable mate Shaun !!!
Yeah I may just well go and have them done at a brake place....but then again I DO like to DO things myself !!! just like you !
I've read the critical part is to remove the burring that occurs after the pipe is cut and yes I have aacess to a good tool and the tool is critical too and this one does double flaring !

Gotta love this place !

[w113dude]

Then go for it, do a few pieces as practice before doing the right piece, there is nothing like spending all that time then at the end you mess up the flaring, (don't ask me how I know)

[merrill]

A few years ago I replaced both fuel lines and brake lines on my 66 230.

ordered the lines from K&K and yes they arrived coiled up.

After carefully unrolling them I used the old lines as a template to bend the new lines. 
All bends by hand, taping the new line to the old as I went. 
When I was concerned about a radius I used something behind the line so I would not over bend the line.  Like an old can or something.

quite simple and did not require any special tools. 

As far as cutting and flaring the lines. I did order the correct flaring tool and did my own.
Yes it is important to make sure the cut and flare is clean once done.
A small drill bit can clean out the inside of a brake line if needed and a small dremel sand disk can clean the flare.
be sure to inspect and clean before installing.   

the hardest part is re installing the lines into the fittings and lining up!

[getsmart]

Hi all,

Just some information on brake and fuel lines that I have discovered. If anyone thinks its incorrect please post...

Our cars (230sl) use a DIN/ISO bubble flare or metric flare on the brake lines.
The main fuel line is 10mm diameter.
The return fuel line is 8mm diameter.
The brake lines are 4.75mm diameter.

I'm unsure of the wall thickness but will post more later. I will post lengths and maybe even a diagram.
I discovered with my original rubber brake lines that they don't appear to be DIN/ISO ends (that terminate at the caliper ends). I'd be interested if anyone has a high resolution photo of an original end. Mine were done very tight, perhaps because they were leaking.

I did a fair amount of research and reading and discovered that the AN flares are considered the safest (created by the aircraft industry, AN stands for Army/Navy...
I've attached a link explaining the various flares and the author goes onto to discuss what flares are prone to failure and what flares should not be re-tightened...

http://www.dimebank.com/tech/BrakePlumbing.html

I've yet to make mine but I'm considering using AN flares instead of the original DIN/ISO, at least in the inbetween sections.

Regards all, Joe

PS. My link to my restoration

http://www.getsmartpagoda.tumblr.com/

[George Des]

You are correct that the brake lines have an ISO bubble flare. Eastwood here in the US sells a tool that makes this type of flare. You can buy std metric sized line at most automotive stores with the bubble flares already done. If not the correct lenght, you can cut to length on one end and flare the other with the Eastwood tool. They also sell a bender that will allow tight bends without kinking. Especiially useful on the lines on the rear axle.
George

[Jack Jones]

I ordered all the lines from MB and they came in the correct length but do require bending. The price was very reasonable (about $200 for all) especially since you receive OE lines with the correct corrosion protection. The only line that was not straight was the line from the front to the rear and I used my original lines as templates.

As a side note, many of the replacement parts are very competitive from Mercedes and one should always compare prices with them. Ebay parts are in most case higher priced since the sellers know that most buyers assume the original parts are more expensive. I just compared the price of 2 fuel hoses and the seller on Ebay wanted $128.00 plus shipping and the exact same parts from MB are $38.00! DO YOUR HOMEWORK PEOPLE!!!

[georgem]

Hey Joe,

Of course the other bit of advice is......................dont forget to put the nut on the pipe BEFORE you do the flare!!!


Cheers

[ja17]

George,

Everyone makes that mistake at least once, if you do it lots,

[getsmart]

George I swear and do hereby solemnly promise to try NOT to do the flare without the nut on or the nut on back to front !

 

[twistedtree]

I just made up 4 new brake lines on my '64 230SL.  I bought stock 3/16" brake lines with metric bubble flares at the local auto parts store.  I don't recall the exact price, but I doubt they were more than $10 each.  I picked the next longer length line than what I needed for each, then bent them to the right shape, cut one end to the final length needed, re-flared, and installed.  One tool I have is a tubing bender which allows for tight 90 deg bends without collapse of the tube.  It's slow and tedious, but the results are good.  I'm sure it doesn't meet Pebble Beach standards, but that's not what I'm after.

[George Des]

Exactly how I did mine. The Eastwood bubble flare tool makes this quite easy to do.

[twistedtree]

Exactly how I did mine. The Eastwood bubble flare tool makes this quite easy to do.

The flare tool is key.  I don't know what brand mine is, but I've had it for almost 30 years.

[w113dude]

This is the set that I have, it gets it right every time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KENT-MOORE-J-29803-BRAKE-LINE-ISO-FLARING-TOOL-KIT-/270996963166?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3f18ad7f5e&vxp=mtr