Author Topic: Improving Hot Starts  (Read 7281 times)

ctaylor738

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Improving Hot Starts
« on: October 17, 2012, 12:40:02 »
Over the past couple of months, I have been working to improve the hot start of a 250SL.  After sitting between 15 minutes and two hours, it took a 10+ second crank to get it to fire followed by several seconds of stumbling until finally all cylinders were firing.  

The first step was a rebuilt starter, which easily doubled the cranking speed and improved the delivery of the injection pump.  This helped a lot, cutting the average crank time down to 3-5 seconds.

Before going further, I investigated whether the cold start valve was actually firing, and found that it was not.  It was only receiving 9 volts while cranking.  To get some more power to it, and the solenoid on the pump, I wired terminal 15 of the two relays directly to the battery through a fuse box.  That resulted in the CSV firing and improved cold start.

Next step was a magic button to ground the thermo time switch manually as a test.  We found that depressing the button for a second while cranking resulted in an instant start with no stumbling.

The final step was to make this automatic using a time interval relay from Allied Electronics (TDRSOXP-12V).  As I wired it, when the starter is engaged, it supplies ground to the TTS for one second.  It is adjustable with a range of .1 second to ten hours.  I ran the wires through the firewall and stuck it up under the dash with some Velcro, which allows it to be detached if adjustment is needed.  Cost was about $85 for the relay and the wiring base.

So far so good with the hot starts.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 18:12:17 by ctaylor738 »
Chuck Taylor
1963 230SL #00133
1970 280SL #13027 (restored and sold)
1966 230SL #15274 (sold)
1970 280SL #14076 (sold)
Falls Church VA

Atazman

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 16:25:02 »
I'm surprised your car starts at all with the coil wire mising.   ;D

Just teasing, of course!  Appreciate your description of how you approached this.  I'm going to experiment with my 250, since it does not start as good as I would like it to after sitting awhile.

Thanks again....
Don
67 250 Sl
(#3168) from Italy
5-speed/Posi/AC/Kinder

mdsalemi

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 19:11:29 »
Chuck,

Nice work!  I understand an old starter motor getting sluggish and how a new one (particularly the latest versions which apparently have a bit more RPM and HP behind them) would speed things up.

The demon at the CSV puzzles me.  Before implementing your TD relay solution, did you try and investigate why there is this low voltage condition?  Or, is 9V normal, and your relay acting as a "B12" shot of vitamins to a sluggish CSV?

(I guess I'm looking forward to the future!)
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

ctaylor738

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 20:55:02 »
Well, if you follow the current path of the CSV, it goes:

Battery +
Big lug on starter
Alternator
Fuse 2
Light switch
Terminal 30 on ignition switch
Terminal 30 on CSV relay
Terminal 87 on CSV relay
CSV

So basically the CSV gets what's left over after the starter draw and shares it with the fuel pump and anything else that's powered on with the ignition.  More current can be lost through the wiring and connections.  What I did was to move the power source for the CSV directly to the battery.  I forget what the measurement was, but I believe it improved to almost 11 volts.
Chuck Taylor
1963 230SL #00133
1970 280SL #13027 (restored and sold)
1966 230SL #15274 (sold)
1970 280SL #14076 (sold)
Falls Church VA

mdsalemi

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 22:05:24 »
I'll have to measure mine.  I don't have any hot start issues, and wondering if I have the same voltage issues but no symptoms.
You probably have less of a voltage drop (less of a current draw) with that new starter...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Eminent

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 21:30:48 »
Hmmm...i like to work the CSV a bit longer at cold starts. This delay might be a good idea as well.
Thanks.

Harry

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 16:37:56 »
I have an unrelated (sort of) question after seeing your photographs showing some of the engine compartment.  My 230SL is black under the hood, as it appears yours is.  This is an aftermarket change, right?  I expect that all of these cars came with the engine compartment the same color as the body.

Thanks,
Harry
Harry Bailey
Knoxville, TN
1966 230SL
Automatic

Jonny B

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 00:16:50 »
Yes, engine bay should be body color.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

gerster

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 06:54:09 »
My engine hood is also black on the inside, it looks original?

hkollan

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Re: Improving Hot Starts
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 08:03:35 »
Yep, if your car is orginally black then it's 100% original.  ;)
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather