Do you have Hardtop Anxiety?

[Lou F]

This is a light hearted post on the most iconic feature of our lovable W113 automobiles, the Pagoda Hardtop.
Think back to the 60’s, to the first owners of the SL.  They got to experience a 2 seat roadster to drive all spring and summer long.  A convertible top, that can be put up in case of rain.  And can change into a coupe that will keep them motoring through the winter.  What an engineering marvel!  But did these Pagoda Pioneers ever worried about what to do about the hardtop?  I really do wonder sometimes.

The Hardtop is stylish, strong, secure, keeps you warm as toast in the winter and provides loads of headroom.  But I get anxious whenever I am faced with these three questions:
How do I take it off / put it back on?
When should I take it off / put it back on?
And where do I store the blessed thing?

Now it is the 21th century and most of us are older than our cars.  So are my neighbors.  So it is getting harder to find good help these days.  The top weights about 49 kg (108 lbs) and is near impossible to remove by one person.  I have a few nephews that are in there teens with strong backs and arms, but bad reputations for been clumsy.  Imagine Jar-Jar Binks helping you move your Pagoda’s Hardtop.

Now I have considered a hoist.  The idea sounds great.  Drive under the hoist. Unlock the roof. Attach the clips to the roof.  Heave-ho the roof off of the car.  Secure the rope to a cleat.  And drive away.  But then I VISUALIZED how to get the roof back on. Dive under the hoist, in the EXACT SAME SPOT directly under the roof.  Untie the rope from the cleat.  Lower the roof toward the car.  Hold the rope with ONE HAND and use the OTHER HAND to move the roof the anchor points.  OOPS, SCRATCH, BOOM, CRASH.  Oh my God what have I done!!!

So let’s skip to storage.  The easy place to store it is on the floor of the garage supported by a saw house and some blocks of wood.  I used Styrofoam blocks attached to the rear anchor points.  But if you put the roof on the floor there is very little room to put the car in the garage.  Not to mention when you drive in the garage you cannot see it over the hood of the car. You may get too close to it and OOPS, SCRATCH, BOOM, CRASH.  Oh my God what have I done!!!  (I did purchase a roller stand for the roof so the roof and the car can share the garage together).
 
Now when to take the on / off?  You take it off when it is warm and put it back on when it is cold.  Well there is more to that.  When I take the car to a mechanic I feel much better when the hardtop is back in place.  Every mechanic takes 3 to 5 days so the car will be left outside a few nights.  The hardtop provides a layer of protection and hides that fact it is a vulnerable convertible.  So I now realize I have two seasons; driving season and maintenance season.  But there is a caveat,  this maintenance season I need to solve a fuel starvation problem and make repairs to the seats.   The roof will be back on for the mechanic and off for the interior shop.  I will need more help from Jar-Jar.

I love my car (sigh).

[m300cab]

Fuel starvation problem!
had that problem once, three mechanics later, I fouind the problem by chance, taking taking the gas tank out for the 2nd time.\\
The problem was in the fuel pump, under the trunk, check the screen inside the fuel pump intake fitting.
good luck

[Garry]

Not quite sure of the connection between fuel starvation and hard top anxiety? Guess you could pour fuel on the hard top and set fire to it and get rid of it

I know the anxiety of the hard top above the car and dropping it.  Don't ask how. Now I am not even game to lift it off it's stand.  

[280sl1968]

For those of us who don't have the luxury of a ceiling mounted hardtop hoist, I'm surprised there is no floor hoist available that could be wheeled around to the car to help with single handed removal of the roof.

Maybe there is?



David

[Peter van Es]

Kids. Mine always help with this little chore.

Peter

[Lou F]

I have a daughter who is 11 and peite.  She is not much help in this matter.  My nephew is a better choice but is away at college.

[Peter van Es]

Just wait another 5 years... I had to use the neighbour's kid until mine grew up. Now they are away at University and I need to time my removal and installation such that they are home when it needs to be done!

Peter

[dpreston Virginia]

No anxiety for me! Mine is on a rack in my basement never to go on car unless I sell it.
Its the best looking hard top on any cars I have owned but the soft top is all I need.

[Cees Klumper]

For those of us who don't have the luxury of a ceiling mounted hardtop hoist, I'm surprised there is no floor hoist available that could be wheeled around to the car to help with single handed removal of the roof.

Maybe there is?

David

Yes there actually is and I've used mine several times for this: in my case it's a hydraulic (engine) hoist that I use for lifting and moving things up to 1,000 kg.

[sfanale]

I have always used a roof mounted hoist (block and tackle).  My job as a kid was always to run the rope.  My dad would hold the top steady and keep the hoist pulley locked while I would take the long lead down the driveway.  I would wrap it around my waist keeping tension and when my dad said so, I would start to slowly walk forward.  Given that the we used a double tackle, it would take a few feet of rope to move the hardtop only a few inches and there was nearly no effort to doing it.  I remember doing this from a young age, maybe even less than 10, so I don't see any reason why your wife/child/neighbor kid shouldn't be able to help.  They slowly lower it while you pull it into place.  You use a parking block to get close to the right spot under the top and from there you will only have to pull it a few inches in any direction.

These days, I have been doing it myself.  Its definitely not as easy when its a one man job...I use the same double tackle, but I attached another pulley to into the ceiling stud out to the side of the main double tackle.  Doing so, I can stand right next to the drivers side door and run the pulley at the same time.  I bring the top down close to seated, leaving the last 6 inches or so for alignment.  Then I wrap the rope around my arm/hand securely (so I am relying on more of my whole upper body to control the pulley and not just my grip) and I slowly move my "roped" arm up while I pull/push the hard top into the final alignment and get it seated.   If you want to get extra fancy / have more security, you can use a winch so that the person running the rope (or if mounted properly, yourself) only has to rotate the handle to lift/lower.  Converting that linear force of the block and tackle to a rotational winch gives you much better control and leverage.

Here is my block and tackle and the fixed single pulley I mounted to the stud with an hook:
http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-5550-Rope-Hoist/dp/B000NPPBHY/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1380130816&sr=1-1&keywords=locking+hoist
http://www.amazon.com/3213BC-Plated-Fixed-Single-Pulley/dp/B000BD8N0U/ref=pd_sim_auto_1

and here is an example of the sort of winch I am talking about:
http://www.amazon.com/Reese-Towpower-74337-Pound-Capacity/dp/B000WZ4KBS/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_z

[sfanale]

OOOORRRRR....

If total overkill is more your style:
http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-440-Lb-Electric-Hoist/dp/B000HWD2KG/ref=sr_1_5?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1380131291&sr=1-5&keywords=electric+hoist

GO ELECTRIC!!!  That would make easy work of the whole operation, and at only $100 its not that expensive given the cost of your anxiety.

[Bonnyboy]

I went through this whole exercise and made a hoist arrangement but with the flex in the rope, the connectors, etc, the hardtop hung too low from my low ceiling. 

I have to go the Jar-Jar Binks route.

I have the convenience of generally not having to drive the Pagoda in the rain so I placed my hardtop onto a shelf I built and anchored it to the wall with rope to keep it there all summer.  I wiill get my daughter to help me pull it down for the winter.  I put my oil and antifreeze on the shelf under the hardtop so space is not wasted.  My kids have not left home yet so I have a few more years of help.

Once I polished my soft top window I quite like the visibility it offers compared to say my MGB.

[J. Huber]

Hey Lou. I thoroughly enjoyed your reflections on the namesake for our cars. As an owner for 30+ years, I have spent a fair amount of time meditating on these questions. It is true that the hardtop offers us that third Pagoda look and feel -- in some ways the most pure one (debatable I know!!)... And it is also true that it is the most awkward 108 lbs one can imagine.

For many years, when I happened to be single, I opted for the "hardtop standing in the corner of the garage" choice. However, once I woke up to the fact that my car was truly special and learned that is was notorious for its Pagoda roof, I started using it again on occasion. I was fortunate to have a couple 6 foot tall nephews myself -- and more than once I enlisted them to help me. Still most of the time, the hardtop remained off. Then it happened... I married my own 108 (well more like 120) lb love interest. But believe it or not, she is one strong cookie. She would help me muscle it on and off and usually had to wait for my side to get up    I had a certain routine by then: I would put the top on in December and remove it in March. Three kids later (and thus me spending more time in the garage...) I decided to purchase a EZ Hoist. This did allow me to remove and replace the top by myself -- but as you mentioned, it was not that easy. The thing would dangle precariously above as I lifted it. And the landings were not always so smooth. My car is not pristine which helped a little but it was still nerve racking.

Then one day, as I removed the top with the hoist, I lifted it up and quickly pulled my car out of the way. I was never crazy about having the top suspended above my car either... I thus went to lower it to the ground to stand it up and out of the way when at about 4 feet from the ground, I heard snap, crackle, pop... And no my kids were not eating Rice Krispies... The plastic buckles on the straps of the hoist gave out and the top came tumbling down. I was two feet away at the crank and mortified. Luckily it somehow only had minor damage. One corner of back window chrome tweaked but that was it. But, what a minute earlier?, my car was sitting under it... Scary thought. I contacted the Hoist company and they sent me new buckles (plastic again -- gee thanks). I still have the hoist but I exchanged the plastic buckles for metal and reinforced the buckle areas. However, instead of worrying about all that, for the last few years now, I have gone back to my secret  weapon... The Lovely (and powerful) Mrs...

[garymand]

Great minds think alike.  A winch takes a lot of the scarrieness out.  My wife never did like my relationship with the pagoda.  Asking her to 'lift her top' was a bit too far.  I add a "cieling bracket" cradle, or suspension shelf to drp the top on so it is held securely from the roof during unexpected Cailfornia shakers.  It is simply 4 2x4's.  2 short and 2 long in pairs.  Each pair is held to the ceiling with hinges and screws.  I thoufgh I'd pull the pins if I needed to stash the cradle for any unseen reason.  In 20 years, I haven't had the need.  Each pair has a hinged 2x4 bar with pipe insulation on the top surface.  The long cross bar reaches under the rear window while the short one supports the behind the latches.  The bars hinge on one side, the other side is a hinged gate latch with the locking eye that swivels, I use that to lock the cross bar up against the post. 

I lifhr the top up, back out the car, swing the cross bars up, engage the latches, and scoot the car undernieth. 

So, I have the top hanging above my car when its not on the car.  After 10 years, I re strung my pullys with 3/16 climbers rope -no stretch.  The ropes stay in place with no tension, all the weight is on the cross bars and the pipe insulation pads.  The crank is close to a car door so I can do the up or down single person.   The pagoda was in the garage and under the op while my son and I were at Candlestick for the interupted World Series.  We lost 3 feet of water from our pool, but the top stayed put.  I've moved since and reassembled the pagoda cradle for its new home.

[PeterW113]

Fortunately my parents still live close by, my hard top has been stored in their garage for so long i cant remember, leaving room in my garage for my pagoda + motor bike  and  other toys. oh i wish i had room for a lathe and other great tools!


Peter

[sfanale]

I have always stored the hardtop above the car on the pulley.  I do sometimes think it would be a good idea to add some "backup" just in case something gives...then I remember the hanging hardtop survived the 1994 earthquake in Northridge, where I used to live.  If you use properly long carriage bolts or long wood screws into studs, its not going anywhere.  At least THAT wont be the point of failure.

As far as stretch goes, get some polyester rope.  Very low elasticity, effectively zero in this type of application.

[Lou F]

I am really surprised to the responses I received from this post.
I have a link to Bad Dreams become reality...Hardtop fell onto car.
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=14255.0
The post starts off with a disaster but continues with a great show of support and some ingenious hardtop lift and storage solutions.
My apologies to Garry for opening any bad memories.

Lou F.

[Garry]

Lou, I have spent years in counselling and will never be the same again, I think it has given me PTSD and I have not had the nerve to change over my hoist to a better system at this point and thus the hard top has been sitting on its stand now for some years.  

It is a real issue and a common problem hence the number of responses. There are quite a few posts on different hoists and how people manage their hard tops and one day I will do a search here and pick out what I think is the best solution other than the hand lifting with an accomplice. At the age of many members here, this is not an easy solution.

I actually really like the hoist at Reply 24 in the referred post

[sfanale]

reading the referenced post, I have always felt that exact thing was the most likely point of failure.  Gripping the roof gutters just seems so precarious to me.

[Mike Hughes]

The flimsy plastic buckles on my hart top hoist harness giving way at inopportune moments gave me pause to conjure up a simple solution:  Four of the metal seatbelt clips for child seats were obtained from the local auto parts store and inserted below the plastic buckles to take the principal strain.  Violá! No more plastic buckles popping at inopportune moments!

[jaxxonia]

Hello Lou,

Since I bought my 113 almost 15 years ago, I have used the Sto'Away hoist and storage device.  Installation in my garage was easy and the device is elegant in its' simplicity.  I have been removing the hardtop in the early Spring and re-installing it in the late Fall every year without a problem.........by myself.  The process takes about 20 to 30 minutes.  The top is stored in a cover and rests on supports.  It is not suspended on pulleys, ropes, etc.  I have the manual model which operates by winch and does not require much effort at all.  Seatbelt material supports the operation until the hardtop is lowered onto the swinging support arms of the device.  An added plus is that the top is very easy to maintain while the changeover occurs. Fortunately, Sto'Away is located in Southern California and I was able to go to manufacturing facility to really check it out.  The owner/designer was an aeronautics engineer and knows what he is doing.  The Sto'Away is made of high quality materials and the customer support is excellent.  There has been no degradtion of operation or materials since I purchased mine.
The web address is: http://home.earthlink.net/~garbiso/menu.htm
Please contact me offline if you have any questions.  Good luck!
 
Jackson
1970 280SL automatic
Tunis Beige Metallic/Cognac MB tex

[Peter van Es]

Interesting, but website looks a little 1993 (broken links and all) to me...

[jaxxonia]

Peter, et al,

I just spoke with Mike at Sto'Away (800 648-9288) who assured me that Sto'away is still in business.  I nicely chastized him to bring his web site up-to-date.  You were right in that it has not been updated in quite a while.  Mike's explanation is that with the modern, electrically operated folding hardtops, business had dropped off, with the exception of the vintage/classic market.  He says most of his business comes from early T'bird owners.  I let him know he is missing out on a niche market of Mercedes Benz owners & enthusiasts.  He seems to be more of a design/manufacturing whiz than a marketing guy.  Suffice it to say that I am very happy I own a Sto'Away.  Again, the number is (800 648-9288).  Mike's email address is garbiso@earthlink.net

Jackson

[Lou F]

This is a nice hoist.  I wish I could see more images.  I looks like there is only a single strap that goes around the top from front to back.  Is that true?  How does it keep the roof from tilting left or right when lowering the roof?

[jaxxonia]

Lou,

Mike Garbiso, the designer & owner of Sto'Away, sent me a YouTube link showing the operation of his product:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9URQuQ500yI

As you will see, the support straps are in a triangular arrangement, preventing the hardtop from spinning or tilting.  The video shows the motorized version.  I have the manual version which suits my needs well.  15 years of smooth, trouble free operation and I love that the hardtop is stored off the ground and out of the way.  Before I bought my 113, I researched both a good tech and a good hardtop hoist.  Luckily, I found both and have been happy since day one.

Jackson