Pagoda values

[rob walker]

Whilst the old rules of you get what you pay for or always buy the best you can afford generally apply, has anyone recently compiled a list of the realistic values that one should pay for each model in Europe.
There seems to be a large disparity on cars that I am researching to purchase.
What should one really be looking to pay for a European 250 or 280 in good to very good condition with some service history, one that has been cared for by its owner and is mainly original?


Rob Walker

[Douglas]

I posted a link to this a few weeks ago:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/current/042004-ger.php

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260

[Cees Klumper]

There seem to be differences between countries as well, with Germany being more expensive than, for example, The Netherlands. I would expect to be able to buy a car such as you describe for no more than 30,000 euros, provided it's from a private seller. For the same price at a professional trader, you would get a car in substantially less condition. The 280 SL has always been quoted as somewhat more valuable. Large discount for not having the softtop. A 5-speed is much sought-after, although I am not sure it is worth the extra price you would need to pay.

Prices in the US are still lower than here in Europe, as they have been for most of the past decade and probably longer. If you are looking to import to Korea, it may be more economical to get a good car from the US.

What always strikes me is the number of cars continuously for sale. Here in The Netherlands there are easily 100 available immediately at any given time. This probably holds true for most other classic car makes & models. This should depress prices.

What I always recommend is to buy a car that is (near, not exactly) perfect for no more than $45,000, because in order to get a car to near-perfect condition will have cost someone around $90-100,000 while the top-price that can be had is usually no more than $45-50,000. Investing $90,000 only makes sense if you intend to keep the car for a long time, because in that case you will get the returns in the form of much lower upkeep through the years.

If you pay much less, with a view to holding onto the car for many years, you will encounter expenses that will tally up to quite a bit, UNLESS you can do most of the work yourself, like I try to do (which to me was one of the main reasons to buy this car in the first place!).

Also it pays to shop around for work you cannot do yourself: two years ago I was quoted a price of $9,000 for a paintjob and some welding etc., and I ended up paying $900 at a less-reputable shop, while the quality came out at 90% of the more expensive place. Today, people are always commenting on how beautiful the car looks and a lot of that can be credited to the $900 paint job.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[rwmastel]

Rob,

If you are not in a big hurry, I suggest contacting the good people at the SL Market Letter (http://www.slmarket.com).  You can get a subscription and watch two things:

1. They compile advertisements from various sources, so you get to see a lot of cars for sale in various locations in various conditions.  This can show price trends.
2. They publish a price trend chart for an SL model (or other interesting MB model) in each issue.  These charts cover a 10 year period and they are broken down by car condition.  So for example, you could see the price trend of a condition 2 280SL from 1992 - 2002.  As a subscriber I would expect you could request the most recent W113 price trend chart.

If you are in a big hurry, perhaps you could just "buy" the information you want.  I believe John Olson, SL Market Letter founder, does provide a consulting service.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Klaus]

The MercedesBenz Classic Center in Fellbach (Stuttgart) currently has two Pagodas for sale. One of them was specially built for the 40th anniversary. They describe it as follows:
"On the occasion of the 40th anniversary of the model range, the 280 SL with automatic gearbox presented at the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center was conceived in collaboration with the Mercedes-Benz design department and has been restored completely. The design of the top and of the interior in brown and gray rounded off by pommele trims was fitted to match the special color of the jubilee model. Thus, this Pagoda is unique in its apparition and design. The vehicle was presented to the public at the Techno Classica fair 2003 in Essen and earned a very positive resonance."
They offer this car at Euro 230.000.- That's about $ 275.000.-
Good grief.

The other one, in comparison, is a real cheapo. Its a 230SL with MBTex. A steal at Euro 69.500.-, or $ 83,000.

Klaus
1969 280 SL

[Albert-230SL]

quote:Originally posted by Klaus

The MercedesBenz Classic Center in Fellbach (Stuttgart) currently has two Pagodas for sale. One of them was specially built for the 40th anniversary. They offer this car at Euro 230.000.- That's about $ 275.000.- ...

[:0]... I found it in their site, but there are no information about the price now. If you want to see some pictures of this unique Pagoda, go here: http://www.cms.daimlerchrysler.com/emb_classic/0,,0-195-141837-1-142060-1-0-0-0-0-0-433-78641-0-0-0-0-0-0-1,00.html

Regards

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[Douglas]

"...this model is unique in its apparition and design."

You've got to love that.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[andy]

how about this. for people looking to buy a sl in england,if you look whats on offer in london via the specialists, a 280sl in good shape 80 to 100,000 miles, 30 years plus of english weather....,the price seems to be about 28 to 30k sterling, and at 182 to the dollar this is  about 54.000 u.s.d.,  for another 14.000 dollars,7.700 sterling, there is 71 car for sale , 3,059 MILES, museum stored, and maintained,etc.etc, at this site www.dupontregtstry.com for 69.500 u.s.d.  if the car is as advertised,and you are looking for a top of the pile 280sl,for the european this must be a sure bet,also need an understanding wife....i have not...
andy

[Douglas]

I don't know the car in the Dupont Registry, but I'm very skeptical of these low-mileage cars. They're almost always frauds. The paperwork is always scant or non-existent on these cars and there are always too many things replaced on them to make them genuine. If it's not an outright lie, it's a buyer who was deceived/seduced by a previous owner.

Frankly, I think low miles is something to look for in a '99 Lexus. This is a basically a used car buyer's mentality.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[France]

Hi guys,

Just over a year ago I bought my 280 1968 on eBay in the US for less than $16K.  You can see her on the photo site called Sarasota's Little Red Truck.  My car was in incredible shape.  But I must say she was not for a purist.  Everything had been replaced--new interior, engine overhaul, chrome, exhaust, steering wheel, soft top, etc. etc.  She's a reliable daily driver with 100K miles, but she might not interest "originalists."  The question is, how do you want to balance originality with everyday driving comfort and cost of restoration?  

Having read all the European car mags (Classic & Sports, Klassik, etc.) every SINGLE month (I'm married to a packrat car freak), we agree that her realistic value is around $30K with no further investment in repairs during the time I've had her.  But as andy says, do you have an understanding partner?  How much do you want to invest in repairs?  Do you want a nice daily driver, or a car you can take to concours? Can you do your own simple repairs?

If I wanted another Pagoda here in France, I'd buy one in the US and import it...  ummmmm... anyone interested in a pristine BMW 6 series 1985 so I can do that?  



Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder

[n/a]

Hello Klaus&albert
I phoned Mercedes today to ask about the 280sl they built and asked
what response they had, to the new one off they had on sale, they told
me there was very little real enquireies about the car but the price will stay at 230,000 euros or they will put the car in the museum if they don't sell it for it's asking price. I asked the salesman where
they got the price from, he told me thats what it cost them to make it
at todays price.

Pagoda Red

red kelly

[n/a]

Right on, Doug, SCM is the only source of info about used enthusiast cars that is halfway reliable. Plus it is fun to read and the folks who write for it are literate, articulate and very well versed. They are not always right- they stuck their foot in it a few times on GT40s- but they are right most of the time. And on 113s, they are exactly right.

[Benz Dr.]

One of the best ways to make a car valuable is for people to see them. If there's only one in town and you see it once a year, what is it worth to you to have one like it? If there's several and you start waving at each other pretty soon you will know the other owners. Suddenly you all set off to some larger group function and other people around town want one too because of the visibility they have and the small crowds that form on cruise night.
No mater what you have, two or three in your area makes your car worth more if it's nice. If you live in an area of nice houses yours will be more valuable than the only nice house on the block with a paved drive way. Same goes for cars - a few sales generates interest and sets a trend.

Daniel G Caron