Big 113 turnout at Starfest !

[hauser]

Did Hatch & Sons bring their  blue 280sl ZF5 speed?  It is for sale $75,000.00. The pics of this car and others are not very detailed on their website. www.hatchandsons.com   All the ads I've read about this car in Hemmings and other publications do not state a price, the only thing mentioned is "it's expensive."

Does anyone have or know of a site in which one can review all aspects of what judges are looking for.  Do these guidelines change from show to show?  I was browsing around the 190sl Group site www.190slgroup.com and noticed they have a preservaton category as well as a restored category. Would the preservation be the same as the street version?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[ja17]

Hello Hauser,
Pete Lesler (of this list) was in charge of the concours at the recent Starfest. In addition Pete conducts the judging school in MBCA. You can probably get a judging sheet from him.

Pete was chief judge at Starfest. Also I have been judging MBCA events since 1975 also. I judged engine compartments and underbody areas with Ted Gotfried at the recent Stafest.
 
In general, groups of judges are assigned the same category to inspect on a given group of cars. Many classes are established according to age and model. A class must have a minimum of three cars or they are bunched into a larger group.

There are two major categories in the MBCA. In the "street class" tne wheel wells, underbody and suspension are NOT judged. In the "show class" these items are also closely scrutenized along with everything else.

The scoring is done on sheets with many items listed into categories. A single car is looked at by many judges who are examining their specific category.

The judging sheets have a specific amount of points assigned to each category. Originality counts for 50% in each category, cleanliness is another 25% while condition makes up the remaining 25%.

"Garage queens" are usually dominate the "show class". Entering a car which is driven in the "show class" as Tom and Mike did is a monumental undertaking. We are obligated to examine every part of the car above and below for dirt and condition!

Yes hauser, different clubs use different guidlines. In a mixed marque show condition and cleanliness may be more important since the judges can not be completely familiar with originality on all the different type of cars.
The Porsche Club has a different major class for restored and unrestored cars.

"Clean car contests" concentrate on car preparation (mainly cleaning). This kind of show allows everyone to compete without the extreme expenses involved in originality and condition.

Hope this helps.  


Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Tom]

Hauser,

That is a nice car as well (I don't think I have ever seen a Pagoda that I did not like!).  It was not at the show.

Anyone know the origin of the car?  With the 5 speed and no head rests, I would think non-US.  But the headlights are US spec.

Best,

Tom

_____________________________________________

1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
_____________________________________________

[Benz Dr.]

The 190SL Group has a preservation award that goes to a car that has probably won before. I suppose the idea is not to have the same car win 3 years in a row and once you win you can't enter the show class with that car again for a certain number of years.
I've been a 190SL judge 2 different times and learned a lot about the cars I didn't know. If you REALLY want to have a rewarding expirience, this is it. Of course you need to know the cars reasonably well so you can be useful. You always judge with at least one other person and sometimes as a team so everyone gets to compare their results - the conclusions are fair but politics can factor in.

So the preservation award is usually given to nearly perfect cars that are used and driven so it's a sort of street class for high end fully restored cars. No ordinary street driven car would stand a chance in this class but I think it's a great idea in that it honours past champions and anyone who keeps their car in top condition - something that's hard to do.

Daniel G Caron

[hauser]

Thanks guys!  

I will try to get a judging sheet from Peter and perhaps revisit this discussion again. I then would like focus on the originality. Seems like a good place to start since it is 50% of the judging.

Peter if you're out there I'd like to get a judging sheet.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Jonny B]

The judging sheet should be available on line at the MB Club web site. It has been updated and I do not know if the current one has been posted yet.

From what Pete told us (I judged chrome lights and trim for the show cars at Starfest), the battery needs to be original, Varta, tar top, but no point difference between the two. There are no extra points for the rub strip tire, but all five tires in show class need to be the same. In street, the spare can be different.

With the MB club, the street cars get extra points for age, up to 30 years, and extra points for mileage, up to 300 K miles, I think. So a street car, can get a max of 430 points, 400 for the four general areas, 15 for age, and 15 for mileage. The show cars get no concession for age or mileage, but the fifth category, as Joe points out (chassis undercarriage) is worth 70 points for a max of 470 in show.

In the MB club there are no extra points for the fun extra stuff, luggage, trouble light, etc.

I did pay attention to the official MB logo on the soft top glass, not many cars had this.

The judging sheet is also very specific for the alloy wheels. As best as can be stated, a car after June 1969 with alloys is alright and not points off.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[W113SL]

Michael:  I did drive my 250SL on the track and was awarded three first place awards for timetrials around Mid-Ohio, autocross, and acceleration runs.  I did not show the car as I did not have time to prep it for street class and besides I had alloys and Kumho 205-55R-14 tires on.  The competion was Gary Wallick's 230SL, a 450SL and a Euro 107 280SL.  If any 280's had run it might have been a different story as I felt my engine was down on power.

We all had a great time on the track.  All you need to run a 113 is strap on a hardtop (mandated by MBCA rules)

My best time around Mid Ohio was 2:10.  Previous best time was 2:15.  The Kumhos made the difference.  My Vintage Racecar once did 1:57 at Mid Ohio.  Gary and I showed 115 MPH at the end of the long straight at Mid Ohio.

Pete Lesler

[W113SL]

Has any one studed the engine compartment on Bob Platz's car?  There is something missing in the area of the valve cover.  I did not judge the car, as I was Concours chairman. Johnny B's car was the best detailed street there by far, and I think he might have given Bob a run if he entered Show class.

The show cars can be trailered to the event, as was Bob's, and are not typically driven, although Bob drove it home to Philadelphia,  All the Hatch cars were sent in a large trailer.

I too agree that the alloys look at of place with whitewalss.  I understand that this car was origianlly equipped with alloys.  Bob has the ducumentation.  Judges will not deduct for alloys on model year 1970 and 1971 cars.  Anything prior to that, it is a deduction.

The Judging sheet is available by emailing me (W113SL@aol.com) or from MBCA.org website.  I suggets you look at the events manual which will also give some insight as to how the duductions are arrived.  We weigh 50% of the total for authenticity.

I will conduct two MBCA judging schools next year.  Looks like one will be in the New Jersy area

Pete Lesler

[mdsalemi]

Ah, Pete--

It is bad enough that I was the ONLY show car actually driven to the event, but then to think of taking a show car on the track would be heresy!  Actually, I do have the hard top for it but I didn't bring it down.  It sits unreastored in my basement.  So I don't think I could have done any driving with my car w/o that top, right??



Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Jonny B]

Check out www.huskyphoto.com and navigate to the StarFest 2004 link. You can check out the Concourse, lots of photos of the cars, the people and the place. There are also a huge number of photos of the various track activities, etc.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto