Automatic versus Manual - Opinions?

[n/a]

Hi, I am down to making a decision about purchasing one of two cars that I am looking at; each offer pluses and minuses. One car is an automatic, the other a four speed.  Any advantages, pitfalls, problems associated with either?  Is a four speed more desireable versus a automatic from a resale standpoint. Other points that need to be mentioned? Thanks!  This forum is a great place for advice!

[jeffc280sl]

Hello James,

Good luck with your decision whichever way you go.  I have owned an automatic and now 4 speed manual 280SL.  The automatic was somewhat tempermental and clunky with its shifting.  The manual is great for the kind of driving I do.  It's an extra car that I take out only on beatuful days like today.  I don't drive it in heavy traffic often. The manual is just more sporty and fun for the kind of driving I do.  I would let the kind of driving you intend to do influence which transmission you buy.

I believe I read somewhere around 10% of the cars exported to the US had manual transmissions.  From that view point it is rare and should demand a higher valuation.  On the other hand Mercedes didn't export automatics without good reason.  It's what the US driver wanted.  Do US drivers still prefer automatics.  I'd say yes, so from that point of view the autos should be in higher demand.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[pagode.info]

Another point of view:

The engine of an automatic Pagoda
has not been treated by high
rpm`s during the last 35 years.

Tom.

[Cees Klumper]

Hi James. I own an automatic (US version, re-imported to Europe) and in heavy traffic it's great. It shifts quite smoothly. Nevertheless, I was looking for a manual transmission when I first bought my car, since I though it would be more sporty. I still think so, and this would make driving more fun when you can make use of the stick shift, but I do like the ease of the automatic shifting. Plus, the automatic is pretty easy to drive as -almost- a manual car by selecting the top gear (2 or 3) you want the box to shift into.

In other words - it's a close call!

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Richard Madison]

We generally favor what we have. I have a 4 speed manual on a late 280 SL. 280's had fewer manuals, only about 20% but I have not seen that a manual commands a higher price than  automatic.

I like the gearing (3.92 rear) in that in 4th gear, you can drive from slow (about 25 mph) to top speed without shifting. I don't much like the 1st gear which requires a quick shift to 2nd at only about 20 mph.  You just get going and you immediately have to shift...but you get used to it and it becomes second nature.
 
The choice of auto or manual is what you want and how you drive. I wanted a "sporty" car where I could feel I was actually "driving" not steering; and the manaul does that. I can rev it to where I want, downshift like Jaun Fangio and pretend I know what I'm doing. So for me, this car demands manaul transmission. Many others here will NOT agree.

Richard M

[hauser]

You should keep in mind what type of driving you will be doing with the car.  If you are in a large city you may want to consider an automatic. A manual in this type setting may be too bothersome. My personal choice is a manual but I have thought about down the road when I reach a certain age if an auto may be the best choice. In this case I may buy an auto for myself and hand down the stick to my son.

In all it's a matter of what works best for you.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Benz Dr.]

The only time it makes sense to change to a manual trans in a 230SL is during engine rebuild. The crank and flywheel must be balanced as a unit which means the engine has to be pulled apart.
Aside from all the other things you need to change it's no small job. Changing from auto to standard is far less trouble than going the other way.

250 and 280SL have flywheels that are balanced as a speperate unit and changing either way is possible without engine removal.

Daniel G Caron

[ricoled]

I've read that in Europe, they actually shift the automatic tranny around just like it was a manual.  I've tried it and the quick, 'thud-like' shifts which Herr Ulenhaut swears is faster than any manual tranny shift, can be fun!

Even if the auto tranny was introduced to appeal to the American market, women in particular, it doesn't make the car less sporty. It gives me the best of both worlds - I can shift it around in spirited driving or I can leave it in '4' and enjoy the view.

[Mike Hughes]

I have been driving manual transmission sports cars for years.  That said, I really like the auto box in my 230SL.  It fits the car and makes it very entertaining to drive.  Part of the entertainment factor is trying to anticipate and come to terms with its idiosyncracies, which simply make for a more challenging driving experience.  This, coupled with the excellent response to any manual input makes it an ideal auto box for a sports car.  Even the "backwards" shift pattern becomes quite logical when one considers that the most often called for manual input is to shift from 4th to 3rd, or vice versa,  which just happens to be the same movement as it would have been on a typical 4 or 5 speed transmission.  The fliud coupling, rather than a more modern torque converter, also contributes to the taught feel of the auto box.  I don't miss a manual transmission on this car one bit.

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

[gwuisman]

I have a 280sl manual. My experience is that you don't need to shift much as the the car runs fine in the 4th gear from 50 km/h. On the other hand, a manual gearbox is a better option to make a sporty ride.

Gerard Wuisman
1970 280sl

[supergrobi]

i think that jeremy clarkson describes it perfectly in this TOPgear BBC TV segment:

http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/Top_Gear_Mercedes_SL_hi.wmv  

he basically states: "when driving an automatic transmission, kick downing just and only increases the noise". asside from his great sarcasm, i think he's right. you lose a fair bit of power from the auto tranny, state of technology in these days imply rough auto gear shifting, and driving manually just gives you that extra sporty feeling.

if i was able to choose, i'd got for the rare but great ZF 5-gear shifter...

regards!
jens


-----------------------
"if all else fails, read the f***ing manual"

280SL 1969, steelblue metallic, Euro 4sp shifter, hard/ softtop,
Becker Grand Prix Cassette Full Stereo, rear jump seat, light grey leather, luckily no headrests...

[mdsalemi]

Hello Gents,

I don't want to shatter any of your illusions, but the whole auto vs. manual thing on the 113 is overblown.

First, Rudi Uhlenhaut himself said that the automatic version (at least on the 230SL) will shift faster then a human can on a manual; so you can run through the gears and be ahead of someone with a stick.

Second, you can shift somewhat manually (with no clutch however) using the automatic selector.  Instead of starting in 4, start in 2, move to 3 and then 4.

Lastly our automatics do NOT have torque converters which sap a lot of power; despite the age of their design this is one item in the car that is pretty darn good.

I saw the BBC thing and found it amusing; the car he was in must have had some kind of tuning issues.  When I am on the highway doing 60MPH and I put the pedal to the metal, yeah I get some more noise but I get quite a jolt of acceleration as well.  I get the same thing at lower speeds as well.  This probably happens because the peak torque is somewhere in the 4500 RPM range.  If your kickdown is working properly and your car is properly tuned you will indeed get a jolt of acceleration at any speed.  Remember, our automatic starts in 2nd gear, so even if you are rolling down the street at 10 MPH and stomp on it you'll get to first and your head should hit the headrest.  Under hard acceleration I even get the tires "chirping" (and this is with the FAT 205/70R14)as the automatic transmission goes from 2nd to 3rd gear.

Bottom line is that our automatic isn't nearly the undesirable device that other cars of the 60's had.  It really isn't too bad and I don't miss shifiting--when I do I use the selector.


Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Naj ✝︎]

I rode in a 250 SL auto a couple of weeks back and it was doing exactly what Clarkson's car did. I think it was a sticky valve or could it be loose bands but basically the sound was like the clutch on a manual slipping. High revs but not enough drive.
Its a pity that with all his experience, the pratt could not tell that it was a faulty gearbox. But what do you expect of wordy jurnos??

naj


65 230SL
68 280SL

[n/a]

I have owned both 4spd and automatic 280SLs. All other things being equal, I like the 4spd car better. It is more fun to drive, although the MB automatic is better than most. The manual box is less likely to require an expensive replacement- when I had to buy a rebuilt automatic, it was about $2K and that was a while back. I also think the manual "feels" faster, but it is pretty close and this car may just have a stronger engine.

[n/a]

Thank you everyone!  Some great, helpful viewpoints offered by all on the manual versus automatic debate.  I am now the proud owner of a 1970 280sl (light blue)automatic which I purchased for 10,800 down from 15,000 here in sunny California.  I want to flush the transmission by draining 2 quarts, adding two quarts until trans fluid runs clean.  Does anyone know which trans line is the return line on the sl's? Passenger side or driver's side?  Thank you again for all your help!

James

[graphic66]

Why not just get a tranny pan gasket and filter and change the fluid completely. In 3 simple steps you can eliminate the problem of just putting new fluid into your tranny with a dirty plugged filter. Drain the pan and remove it, put in the new filter. Take off the louvered plat under the hydraulic clutch and turn the engine around until you find the allen head drain plug and drain your clutch. Then disconnect the cooling lines and blow them out. This is probably the best way. While your down there grease your chassis and change your differential fluid. Don't foget the grease fittings on the drive shaft, hope you have small arms or like pain. Don't forget your radiator fluid, and check it for electrolosis just to be sure, you don't want to eat your head up. To check electrolosis just connect your digital voltmeter to your negative post on your battery and submerge the positive test lead in your radiator fluid, any reading over .05 volts indicates a problem, quite possibly a bad engine ground or other faulty ground causing electricity to travel through your antifreeze causing electrolosis equaling corrosion. Keep at it changing brake fluid and check the archives for the myriad of maitenance items you will need to do.

[n/a]

Thank you, but I think that you mean the torque converter versus "clutch"  I would remove and replace the filter anyway, but the method of braking the retun line works quite well, and you get a really good flush all at the same time.  I can see that this "new" old car will keep me busy!

[graphic66]

Now you have just entered the SL Twilight Zone, as these cars have hydraulic clutches, also called Fottinger clutches  and not torque converters. I have heard several reasons for using this instead of a torque converter ranging from how the Germans taxed cars to performance issues. It permits very fast shifts as can be witnessed by the "hard" shifting of these cars. It permits stepless speed changes and operates on level ground at about 98% primary to secondary rotor speed. I believe with  a fluid change it will require about 3 3/4 liters of ATF. Properly filled and cold it will be at the lower mark and hot at the upper mark.