What would be a no-brainer in a ground up restoration?

[RobSirg]

Hi There,

New member here. I am about to embark on a new restoration (near total) of a 280SL manual (or standard) transmission (RHD) and was hoping to tap into the brains trust for some tips.
I am wanting to know which parts should be replaced in a total restoration if you could.......... regardless of the condition of the original part?
Firstly, I'm all for retaining the original item and would much prefer to restore and refurbish original items and went to great length to retain my original hose clamps, wiper washer reservoir, firewall padding, etc, on my first Pagoda. However, seeing as I am having this next car pulled apart there are some items that should simply be replaced as a no-brainer due to their availability, low cost, likelihood to fail, difficulty to replace once assembled, etc. I'm not referring to cosmetic items- only working parts. Items such as speedo cable, gear linkages, clutch plate, etc? Also what items are highly recommended for overhaul / service - Eg: Brake booster, Gearbox?, Fuel pump?, etc? Sadly, whilst I would love to work on this myself I am have limited experience and even less time so I will mostly likely be paying for professionals all the way......ouch! (thankfully, after my first car I now have a decent list of trusted people).

Many Thanks

Rob

[Garry]

Firstly welcome Rob to the Forum, I will be sending out a welcome letter later today and a couple of window stickers.  

Like you I am just finishing off my second restoration of a Pagoda using the lessons I learned from the first one and now am at the point that I am just trying to get rid of the final little oil leaks that keep re-aappearing and driving me mad.

I overhauled my engine because it had to be done, but have kept with the existing gear box (auto) that whilst a little bit noisy, is just fine for another 5 years I hope.  I took off all and I mean all ancillary items including all nuts and bolts etc, in the engine bay and had them overhauled, re-conditioned or replaced and where appropriate depending on their condition, and all items that had cad plating were re-plated including nuts and bolts. Also replaced all plastic and rubber items through out the car.  Did not mess with the rear axle, there is no problem with it and used the 'aint broke don’t mess with it' principal there but did up all the brake components replacing consumables and replaced all brake hoses together with new bearings and tires. There was some rust in the engine bay around the firewall and also on the front cross member that was cut out and repaired then the engine bay repainted before everything was put back together, including new sl113 Forum reproduction firewall pad. Radiator re-corded.

Interior was completely stripped and replaced both carpet and all leather seat covers etc in the interior. I also put in a lot of sound insullation in varying forms. Thankfully there was no rust there. I did not touch the boot, it was in excellent original condition, no sign of rust.

Externally I rechromed most items but not all where the originals looked good. All body panels (e.g. doors, boot, bonnet and soft top hatch) were realigned where possible.

As a matter of interest, who are you using in Melbourne for your car work?

Garry

[RobSirg]

Thanks for your reply Garry,

Your suggestion is pretty much aligned with what I was thinking. On my first restoration my auto transmission was fine after servicing (not noisy). I also recoated all clips, nuts and bolt and clamps. When you say "cad plated" do you really mean cad or Zinc or nickel? This time around I intend to get the proper cad plating done but I haven't found anyone in Victoria who could do that (was planning on sending it to NSW). Or do have a kit and do it yourself?

I need to replace floors incl the trunk and have just ordered the parts from SLS. (seemed to be the best price after you deduct German tax). I do not intend to mess with the rear axle either - the diff is not leaking like my '69 does. I shall replace all rubbers/hoses, refresh engine, service injection pump, recore radiator, recondition brake booster, replace bearing, etc. Will rechrome where necessary. I will replace the interior almost completely  - in vinyl this time as that it what it was originally. I also need to buy new woodwork - I have seen a few on the internet but they don't look as good as original to me. If anyone can recommend who produces the most Authentic looking I appreciate knowing.

Although the firewall padding is very much intact it is very dry and I have some minor rust treatment in the firewall so I will replace the firewall padding this time. Where can I purchase the reproduced (SL Forum) one from?

I will have all the aluminium in the Engine bay hydroblasted again - it came up a treat on the '69. Looks a little bling for now but should dull off over time and look quite original.

The people I will use are all in Richmond (same block). BM Leather Creations (Bill) for the interior - Bill did my '69 and has done many others. We have become good friends as a result and he has connected me with others trades who can be trusted. The body work will be done by Pro-Panels around the corner - they did my dashboard on the '69. He (Jim) is doing another Pagoda at the moment - he has completed quite a few recently. This one I saw today is getting similar treatment to mine - all new floors, sills, part firewall, etc. He does the proper spot welding and now knows what should and shouldn't be painted, sheen levels, etc. For the Mechanical work I will use another mechanic (same block in Richmond) who is currently assembling a 280SL that belongs to a friend (who Bill connected me to). Although I haven't used him before - I know he will learn a lot from this one. The beauty is that they are all close and a short deviation on the way to / from work for me - so I can monitor it closely. I used Classique Motors (Joe) for my '69 and I was very happy with him - he is still my go to man if things are not quite right.

I will also utilise Chris Stewart from the club for some used parts here and there.

Would be good to catch up for coffee sometime so I can pick your brains further (and not bore everyone else)  :-)

Regards

Rob

[GGR]

Welcome.

Rubber deteriorates with age, so if you don't have evidence of a rubber part having been replaced recently, it is a good idea to replace it. On some cars that haven't been used in a long time rubber may still look good, but will end up deteriorating rapidly when you start using the car. These are mainly mounts. New ones will also make a huge difference in ride quality. You then have grommets, hoses etc. Be careful with some aftermarket suppliers, quality can be extremely bad, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15F0w4o_9-I

Using original MB parts is usually a quality guaranty, but it comes at a price.

It is also a good idea to reseal all mechanical elements while they are on the ground.

While the car is apart, it is also a good idea to look for rust.

For the rest, I usually follow the rule "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I do all the work myself, so I can sometimes take a chance on elements that are easily accessible. For the rest, the workshop MB manual comes with a lot of details on wear tolerances. Some parts may be used, but may also have a lot of life left in them. I use the factory wear tolerance as a threshold for replacement. No need to be more catholic than the Pope. 

[RobSirg]

Too funny - yes I will try avoid the temptation to avoid the Chinese URO's. (U replace often)

I always by OEM hoses and suspension rubbers but I have been known to buy best priced door, window, roof seals. I believe the Mercedes ones fit better but given I have to replace every single seal I can put up with some fudging here and there. Plus, once restored this car is not expected to see a lot of rainfall.

I found the rust alright- well hopefully most of it. Floors mostly - I have already ordered new floors. Sills will also need replacing. some small holes in the upper firewall will have to patched. Guards and rear panel seems good.

I will also reline the fuel tank once that is off. Rust in the tank wreaked havoc on my injection pump on the '69. I will get my injectors tested as I have now 12 used ones - hopefully 6 good ones in that lot after cleaning.

One thing I didn't touch on the 69' was the steering. Works fine on this one also. I guess these were well made - hopefully they are bulletproof. Will check for leaks, etc.

The gearbox is the tricky one. I guess some will suggest that whilst it is removed I should have it pulled apart and replace worn parts. If I could do it myself I would surely do it - but this can be a costly exercise using a specialist (it sure was on my Alfa). Will have to check the finances when I get to that stage. Extent of rust might have an impact.

[GGR]

Regarding rust, you need to check properly the two inner round frame rails ahead of the rear wheels. I've seen many Pagodas with bad ones.

It's a good idea to reseal the steering box. They all end up leaking more or less.

If your transmission is not noisy and shifts smoothly you can assume it is in good condition. You can just reseal it. Just make sure it was running with ATF as recommended and not with thicker gear oil as it is sometimes the case. Thicker oil end up damaging some needle bearing in there and mask the noise of it due to thickness. 

[RobSirg]

Thanks  - will make a note of those.
Yes, I did read in the technical manual that ATF was required for the manual gearbox.
I did have trouble with the clutch one day - wasn't engaging and allowing me to change gears whilst car was running (IE: No clutch). Eventually cam good - I assume no friction in the clutch plate? Not sure if that should be replaced or not. Wasn't overly expensive in the context of Pagoda parts.

Rob

[GGR]

Regarding the clutch, it depends of the thickness of the friction disc. If it is still well above the maximum wear threshold as described in the workshop manual, you may keep it. Your problem is most seemingly related to the hydraulic side of things, master and/or slave cylinder. They should be checked. If the bores are in good condition, you should be able to renew the seals inside only.

[RobSirg]

Thanks - that makes perfect sense. Think I will add the repair kits to my likely parts list.

[stickandrudderman]

Where possible, I like to drive a car for a few hundred miles before I disassemble it. I keep a notepad with me and write down any defects and use that to help formulate the restoration.
As an example, we recently finished a car that the owner has had and used for many years. His instructions were to only do the structural work on the body, nothing else. "It drives fine and I don't want to spend money making the engine look nice". All well and good and pragmatic. However, as the body restoration progressed,  the worst chrome parts ended up being re-chromed, but not everything, a new interior was installed and all new suspension rubbers.
Now, the customer is delighted with the car, it looks great and drives great, but it is such a disappointment when you open the bonnet and see an engine that looks like it hasn't been touched in 40 years.
This is not a criticism of our customer, just an illustration that I hope will help others make an informed decision when they are deciding to embark on a very lengthy and expensive process.

[RobSirg]

Good points - thanks.

I have driven about 100km's  (Kangaroo miles) - it's just not that pleasant as the shift knob is half broken, the bushings are broken (damn near ended up with the shifter in my hand at one point before I popped it back in ). I know they are an easy fix but I couldn't be assed given it will be stripped down. Otherwise runs well - steers and brakes well. I will have the head off at some point - but I would be surprised if it needs a bottom end rebuild.
At one point I felt a little guilty about having this thing stripped right down - as it looked too good (good from far...far from good), however, on closer inspection it is a true project car - that someone else might even consider stripping for parts (due to the large amount of rust and poor interior, poor paint, etc, etc,).

That thought never entered my mind and I feel happy about bringing new life to an old girl and saving another one of these beauties..........just need to keep the Director of Finances away from the credit card statements for next 12 to 18 months!