Author Topic: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France  (Read 9760 times)

Anders50

  • Guest
Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« on: July 10, 2014, 17:46:08 »
My wife and I will be moving to France later this year, and we are planning to bring our 1966 230SL with us.

It is a USA/California spec car, manufacturing code 491, and I am trying to find out what, if any, changes I will have to make to it to be able to register it in France.

Does any one know?

Cees Klumper

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Fallbrook
  • Posts: 5719
    • http://SL113.org
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2014, 20:15:01 »
Not too sure, but I don't suspect much will have to be done, if anything at all. The French are more 'laissez-faire' than other european countries. One would expect the speedometer would have to be converted, but maybe not even that. You may find that the language barrier, if you don't speak reasonable French, can complicate things, and maybe it's best to find an agent to do the importation etc for you. Good luck, and 'bienvenue en France'!
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

GGR

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, DC, Washington
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2014, 23:53:08 »
I don't think you will have anything to change on a '66 model. The car type has been homologated and sold in France by Mercedes so you shouldn't have too much trouble. You need to request to Mercedes France the "Fiche d'Homologation Des Mines" for your car (I guess they will need your vin for that). Then you have to deal with the DRIRE which is the administration in charge of getting the car legal on the road in France.

Anders50

  • Guest
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2014, 22:05:33 »
Thanks Cees and GGR!

Poking around on the internet it seems like lights are the biggest issue and difference between US and Euro cars of that vintage (red vs. orange turn signals, type of headlights...)... I'm trying to determine if a -66 qualifies as a collectible/vintage/veteran and if there are more lenient standards for such cars.

If anyone know anything about this, please let me know!

GGR

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, DC, Washington
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 22:18:07 »
A car is considered a classic when it's 25 years old. You can register it as a classic car but there are some use restrictions. A classic registration (Carte Grise) usually takes away some value from the car due to these use restrictions. Going back to normal registration may be difficult, so I think you should get a normal registration.

They may be more lenient with a classic car. If I were you I would take it through the process as is as it has good chances to go through. If not, just address what they want you to address. No need to spend time and money on what you guess is needed as French administration, like in many other countries, can defy all kind of logic. What they feel is needed may depend on the official you meet that day, if he had a good sleep, is the weather is nice etc. So don't over think it before hand.

If you read French you will be able to find a lot of information on the net, as many people bring back their car from the US after an expatriation period. So many forums cover the issue.

Anders50

  • Guest
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2014, 04:32:51 »
Thanks again GGR. I'll do just that!

ejboyd5

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • Southold, NY
  • Posts: 510
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2014, 12:11:30 »
Yellow headlights?

GGR

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, DC, Washington
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2014, 13:58:29 »
Yellow headlights?

Not compulsory anymore.

Flyair

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Poland, Mazowieckie, Konstancin Jeziorna
  • Posts: 1920
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2014, 18:13:46 »
not only not compulsory, but for the last several years every new car has white lights.
In fact I think that yellow lights give vintage cars an even more oldtimer look
Stan
1971 280SL
2011 SL550 AMG
2011 GL
2015 GLA

philmas

  • Associate Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • France, Ile-de-France, Le Raincy
  • Posts: 195
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2014, 10:38:56 »
Be aware that you should most probably get only a "carte grise de collection" from french authorities, as they usually do not deliver a regular ("normal") certificate for imported odtimers...
But the former restictions have, as I am told, been modified ("softened", i.e.)recently, and this shouldn't be an issue for an all around use .
Philippe from Paris
Euro '71 280SL manual 4sp

Ulf

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • Denmark, Fredericksberg, Rungsted Kyst
  • Posts: 838
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 13:05:20 »
I'm 99,9% sure that you won't have to do anything to your car. I think Denmark (where I live) and Italy are the only countries where you need turn signals on the front wings (usually inoffensive aftermarket things), but have even seen a few US imports here without them…

But be careful of the other French motorists ;-)

Le Ulf
1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
2008 Jaguar XF 3.0
2005 Mini Cooper

AGT

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Scotland, Midlothian, Edinburgh
  • Posts: 192
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 16:41:50 »
Hi

I completed this process in 2012 for my US spec 1966 230SL without too much difficulty. I had not noticed your post and have just returned from France yesterday leaving my document file on my car in France. So, this is done from memory.

The first step is to get the certificate of homologation from Mercedes-Benz in Paris. The address is on the M-B France website and there is a fixed fee of around 150 Euros. They will want a copy of your US registration document and, probably, confirmation from an authorised M-B garage that your speedometer reads in KPH. I converted my speedometer using the sticker option as a KPH speedo is expensive and got a letter from my "independent" M-B technician to say that this had been done. With a LHD car you should have no problem with your lights.

Next you need to get the car through its statutory inspection in France - the Controle Technique. This is not particularly rigorous and there is no emissions test for old cars. You will find a list on the internet of all the things which are checked as part of the CT and you can make sure that each of these is in order before you put the car in its shipping container.

Then you need to go to your local taxes office to establish that any import taxes have been paid. I had no tax to pay as I had paid tax in 2006 when I imported my car from the US into the UK and there was no tax on the import from the UK to France. You may have to pay taxes to get your car released from the shipper wherever you land it and if you keep evidence of this then that will prove that taxes have been paid. The taxes office gives you a document called a Quitus Fiscal.

With your certificate of homologation, CT, quitus fiscal, passport, French utility bill and US certificate of title you go to your local town hall and fill in a form to register your car. Assuming that all of this is in order you will pay a first registration fee of around  a couple of hundred Euros (it is based on horsepower) and then get given a receipt which lets you have your French number plates made up. Your carte grise (registration document) will get posted out to you. That's it.

There are a few options to think about.

If you don't want to get the certificate of homologation from M-B in Paris then you can go to the DRIRE in your department and get them to certificate the car as complying with French standards. I don't think that this is worth it. Some people have very positive experiences; others not so. See GGR's post re the weather etc.

You can choose between a carte grise de collection and a carte grise normal. A CG de collection means that you only need to have a CT every 5 years; with a normal it is every 2 years. You can also use white on black number plates. Against that I agree with GGR that a CG collection is seen as restrictive. There are rumours that collection cars might be limited to weekend driving. If you can get a CG normal, I would go for it.

Please PM if I can answer any questions or help at any stage of the process.

Bon chance.

Regards
Andrew

1966 230SL
1976 Citroen 2cv
1989 420 SL
2012 BMW 125i MSport convertible
2014 BMW 330d MSport x-drive touring
2014 BMW 640d MSport gran coupe



Andrew

1966 230SL

Anders50

  • Guest
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2014, 18:03:08 »
Hi Andrew,

Thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU for your step-by-step! I'll apply for the homologation certificate ASAP, assuming M-B France doesn't exactly rush these papers through.  :) And, like you, I will use my independent tech - whom I will sorely miss - to give the thumbs-up on the speedo (can I assume they don't care that the odo is in miles?) B.T.W.: I'malso taking another, yunger car (-95 XJS) with me. Its speedo has both mph and kph markings on it, is that enough?

I feel a lot better.

also thank you for the heads up on the different types of CGs! I'll go for the standard version, just to be safe

AGT

  • Full Member
  • Senior
  • ***
  • Scotland, Midlothian, Edinburgh
  • Posts: 192
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2014, 18:31:21 »
Hi

The odometer in miles will not matter. Given the current focus on speeding fines as a means of fund raising for the nation (I got three minors in one day at Easter), having a speedometer clearly marked in KPH is probably as important to you as the French authorities.

The dual markings on your XJS will be fine.

I checked the M-B France website and the confirmation about lights and the speedo are only for English cars. You might get away without any supplementary confirmation for a US car.

The document which you want is called an Attestation d'Identification. To obtain this you need to write to M-B France at:

Service Homologation VP
CS30100 - Montigny le Bretonneux
78077 Saint Quentin en Yvelines Cedex
FRANCE

Your letter should give your contact telephone number and enclose a copy of your registration document and a cheque for 150 EUROS payable to Mercedes-Benz France. I also sent a copy of my data card. They promise a three week turnaround. I got my certificate by return.

Which department are you coming to live in?

Regards
Andrew
Andrew

1966 230SL

Anders50

  • Guest
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2014, 20:23:32 »
Thanks again, Andrew!

I found the M-B homologation website and downloaded the form from there. Next quest will be to find who to talk to at Jaguar France...  :)

Right now we're shooting for Hérault - we're negotiating about two houses, one just outside Lodève, and the other one a few clicks from Saint-Chinian. But if they fall through there is plenty others to choose from. We're in no particular rush...

GGR

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, DC, Washington
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2014, 02:12:40 »
I like the St Chinian area. I've been working in wine making in the area when I was a student. I think I like St Chinian better than Lodeve. But I may be biased. What about renting a place for a while before buying? That would give you a feel of the area, the people etc. before taking your decision.

Anders50

  • Guest
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2014, 04:49:00 »
We like Saint-Chinian best too. More of an all-year town with fewer vacation homes, and therefore a more vibrant, alive community.

we've done the rental-for-a-while stuff and that's the reason we're focusing on Languedoc-Roussillon rather than Var and Provence. we feel it is more genuine French after 20 years in the Wild West - Colorado. :-)

GGR

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, DC, Washington
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2014, 11:02:24 »
Var and Provence are nice but that's where everybody go.  In comparison, Languedoc Roussillon has a lot to offer without all the hype. In fall, all the vineyards turn yellow, orange and red and it is so beautiful. Back roads have retained their platanes trees, so typical of southern France. Driving there makes me think of Charles Trenet's song "Douce France" . You also have the Canal du Midi and spending a few days on a boat will get you a completely different feeling of the area.

If you're planning to stay all year round I think the climate will be better and milder in St Chinian (which also influences people) than in Lodeve which is down the valley in an already quite montanous area on the way to the Larzac plateau. I used to drive by Lodeve quite often when I was shuttling between Paris and the South. For some reason, Lodeve never appealed to me. But again, this is very subjective. To be honest I never drove down into the city. It's just a feeling about that particular area. I know I wouldn't like to spend a winter there. The Salagou lake, south of there, is quite nice though. 

I knew someone who lived in St Chinian who was a car buff. That was more than 20 years ago and he had started a wine transport company by then. He may still be there. He may be a good contact for you to direct you to the right places if you need your cars sorted out. If you're interested, I will have to retrieve his contact through another friend. Let me know. 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 18:52:39 by GGR »

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2014, 16:02:56 »
I like the St Chinian area. I've been working in wine making in the area when I was a student. ....
Did you help to bring this very affordable one to our table?  ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 16:13:13 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

GGR

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, DC, Washington
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2014, 16:35:18 »
Not in 2012!

The time I worked in winemaking in the region was interesting as I worked in one of the very first plants to start what we then called "technological wine" as opposed to traditional productions. Methods were copied from California and Australia and we had Australian winemakers coming and teach us. Basically we were manufacturing a taste based on marketing studies carried out on the markets we were targeting. With that kind of wine the final taste depends much more on whatever products are added in the tank than on the location, quantity of rain and sun grapes received during that year. This was the period when part of the region shifted from "terroir" to "sepage". No need to say technological wine production was met with a lot of resistance locally as it was considered as betraying traditions. However, this was a question of survival, as Californian and Australian wines were hitting the international markets and were doing very well, as they were offering clients a stable and repeatable taste that went by the sepage (chardonnay, sauvignon etc.) rather than a region and a year which was more confusing for the average international consumer. As a result the region was in crisis. This, and saying that production was aimed at export eased local resistance. Targeted market was mainly the UK, and taste was adapted to it, with a final product a bit sweeter than what traditional local production were. Today, these methods have generalized, apart from high end wines where "terroir" and year remain important. It is still used for niche markets, mainly connaisseurs who look for traditional wines.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 18:49:26 by GGR »

Anders50

  • Guest
Re: Bringing a US spec 1966 230SL to France
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2014, 17:17:14 »
You summed up perfectly why we're focusing on Hérault and why we find Saint-Chinian so attractive. And we do plan to have it as our permanent, year around home.

If you stumble on the name of the guy you knew all those years ago I'd be glad to have it. It'd be good to have an in to the car crazy community!