Author Topic: OK! What Wrong With This 1970 (280) SL? (Read 23001 times)

RobSirg · « **Reply #25 on:** November 28, 2014, 03:53:33 »

Thanks for the link John - a nice read indeed.

I still think you are holding out on us......if I do the sums you were still young and single when you first had the car.....not to mention it being such a cool car in the swinging 60's.

Guess we might have to pry those locked-away stories out of you over a beer one day

Jonny B · « **Reply #26 on:** November 28, 2014, 16:25:52 »

Not sure of the exact origins of the 50 yr tool bag. These were on offer at the 50 year event held in Willingen, I think the whole took kit, as pictured, was there on offer too.

RonB · « **Reply #27 on:** November 29, 2014, 01:12:54 »

I have a question about the tag on the firewall[ image #15]. Is this correct for a Euro?

Second item that stood out was the door panel [ image #3 ] - correct for Euro? or are these older panels.

Jonny B · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2014, 17:50:09 »

On the door panel, image 3, are you referring to the hard pocket? Those are correct for the Euro models.

As to the tag question. I do know it has been discussed on the forum. I did a bit of search, and the information I could find on the site, indicated a Euro car would have the VIN tag/plate on the firewall. The US cars have it mounted on the B pillar. I thought they would have been riveted in place, not screwed on, as shown in the photo.

Iconic · « **Reply #29 on:** November 29, 2014, 18:33:44 »

Quote from: ja17 on November 27, 2014, 17:37:10

The latest M130 (later 280SLs) engines had a design change. The "pod" between the cylinder head and injection pump (where the thermo-time-switch and temperature gauge sender are), was deleted. After this change the water hoses at the WRD were reversed from previous versions. The thermo-time-switch and temperature gauge sender, were then relocated directly into the cylinder head. The lower WRD hose was then routed below and directly into the cylinder head where the "pod" was located on the earlier design.

Thanks Joe for teaching me something new. I haven't heard about that before.
And best of all, all is OK under by bonnet, and has been.
Mark

RobSirg · « **Reply #30 on:** November 30, 2014, 04:11:42 »

Just checked my UK delivered 280SL - the VIN plate on the firewall is screwed in place ( as is the BS seatbelt compliance plate). I'm fairly certain the Engine Bay was never re-sprayed on that car, are saying it should be riveted?

Rob

Jonny B · « **Reply #31 on:** November 30, 2014, 04:38:29 »

Mainly posting to get the discussion started. I would have surmised that the VIN plate would be riveted into place, but, as I type, I am seeking to fully understand.

My 280 SL, US version, with the plate in the door jamb, is riveted.

RobSirg · « **Reply #32 on:** November 30, 2014, 10:43:18 »

Got it. Thought I would church the TM, mine has the same screws as the Euro version in the Tech manual. I'm fairly certain the Euro versions were screwed in place to the firewall.

Rob

Jonny B · « **Reply #33 on:** November 30, 2014, 16:27:49 »

Thanks for the update, I continue to learn….

mnahon · « **Reply #34 on:** December 01, 2014, 03:23:28 »

Mine is a euro with the VIN plate screwed in on the firewall. I had thought the screws were suspicious and contacted the Classic Center about it and they told me this was normal, as it should be.

dirks1408 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 01, 2014, 15:36:58 »

if it should be a europeen pagoda, there is one chrome molding missing below the licence plate

mbzse · « **Reply #36 on:** December 01, 2014, 15:51:33 »

Quote from: dirks1408

if it should be a europeen pagoda, there is one chrome molding missing below the licence plate

Not all Euro Pagoda cars had this chrome strip from factory. In Germany, yes, but in other countries like for instance Italy and Sweden, not.
/Hans in Sweden

GGR · « **Reply #37 on:** December 01, 2014, 17:43:40 »

Assuming the car is all original, it is not originally for the Italian market, as it is missing the two turning indicator lights in front of the fenders specific to Italian cars of that era. So it may be a Swedish car then?

mbzse · « **Reply #38 on:** December 01, 2014, 18:10:18 »

Quote from: GGR

.../...So it may be a Swedish car then?

Well, many countries in Europe... To determine to where a Mercedes car was first delivered, look at the stamped metal plate close to the hood catch and/or the printed data card. A car delivered initially to Sweden has stamped code SA 624. In the printed Data card, the country code is 569. A US delivery car has SA 491 stamped.
See Tech Manual http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/DealerandCountryCodes#Europe
/Hans in Sweden

KevinC · « **Reply #39 on:** January 03, 2015, 02:46:36 »

Quote from: RonB on November 23, 2014, 19:34:45

http://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/mercedes-benz/sl-pagode/1970/270224?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Classic%20Driver%20Daily%202092014&utm_content=Classic%20Driver%20Daily%202092014%20CID_16e6125a248d23ea064dddd6032c740d&utm_source=newsletter

Classic Driver - going to RM Auction - looks more like a 230-250 - door panels - tag o n firewall.

WOW....Auction estimate is $225 - $275k...

http://rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1071707

Flyair · « **Reply #40 on:** January 03, 2015, 08:16:51 »

Kevin,
it will be very interesting to see if the car goes for that price. If it does then the market (if the market there is...) really moved up

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #41 on:** January 03, 2015, 10:17:40 »

Great thread! I'm learning a lot ... thanks all around~

John (49) I read your PN story again ... what a great story it is

Jonny B are there any more stories like it in PN you have put together?

RobSirg I agree with you we have to try to get some more stories from John over a beer

Stan let's keep an eye on the final hammer price, then I don't think Auction prices mean all that much since purchasers often don't know all the fine details.

RobSirg · « **Reply #42 on:** January 04, 2015, 11:17:33 »

I also think my early estimate of $150K+ is closest so far, but I will hold off bragging rights until the Auction hammer falls

Rob

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #43 on:** January 04, 2015, 15:58:33 »

Thanks Jonny B for your PM and pointer to this thread ----> http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=16123.0

Thanks!

KevinC · « **Reply #44 on:** January 04, 2015, 22:34:29 »

I believe that it was RM that also sold the $250k car at Monterrey this past summer. This could be why they feel that they can justify the high estimate on this one. Gooding & Company has several nice pagodas listed in their catalog for Scottsdale in the low - to-mid 100's. Even with the luggage, I believe RM is a little strong on this one. We'll see!

http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl-4/

KevinC · « **Reply #45 on:** January 19, 2015, 03:48:09 »

RM sold the SL that was the original subject of this post for $181K including buyer's premium.

http://rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1071707

Gooding sold this one for $99k.

http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl-4/

I saw the Gooding car in person and can't imagine how the RM car was worth almost double the value.

paulr · « **Reply #46 on:** January 29, 2015, 17:46:56 »

There are plenty for sale in the UK now at between £100K and £140K. I know Howard sells well for this as thats where I sold mine.

http://www.howardwisecars.co.uk/index.php/classic/car-details/mercedes_280_sl_pagoda_lhd/

http://www.peterjarvis.net/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=236&category_id=12&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=72

JamesL · « **Reply #47 on:** January 29, 2015, 19:11:22 »

Very interesting - started looking at the Howard Wise stock (as you do) and he's selling a very well known 250...

1968/’F’; Auto; PAS; Red/Black Leather; Hard/Soft Tops; Headrests; Previously owned by the late Roger Edwards from March 1989 and underwent many upgrades - then passed to his family until recent sale; featured in numerous magazines and articles over the years; MOT certificates from 1988 onwards; Original Owner’s Handbook and Wallet; 69,500 mls. Pls call with your enquiries & to make an appointment to view - 020 8418 9191 or 07836 522234

Price: £89,995

That'll be a very sorted and well specced car and I seem to recall the engine was a little hotter than stock...

paulr · « **Reply #48 on:** January 29, 2015, 21:38:20 »

Hi James, yes of course, I know this car from seeing it at REZ and the with Howard. To be honest, I don't think it's that great, it might have a few mods but what for ? Speed ? I had the usual electric ignition and better axle but that just made it easier to drive everyday. As Howard sells very good cars he might struggle to shift this at that money, but what do I know. I'm driving a loaner r107 this week as my r129 is being serviced. The pagoda is by far the more characterful compared to the 107. The 129 is different altogether and I have to say after all those wonderful years. I'm happy to have my 129. I did 16k miles from january to January and loved almost everyone. I do miss my pagoda though.
I hope yours is doing well .

P

dseretakis · « **Reply #49 on:** January 31, 2015, 11:49:14 »

I think the price difference between the two cars was due to the fact that the RM car underwent a concours quality restoration. In my opinion an original very low mileage example with original paint, chrome, interior with very minimal wear is the end all be all of classic cars but the gooding car was not this. It was a relatively well preserved car but it was re painted, it had wear above and beyond what you'd find in a well preserved low mileage survivor and it had an incorrect (one incorrect) feature being the gear shifter knob. This was incorrect but not in good taste.
The Goodings car on the other hand was perhaps better than new condition wise. It had many incorrect features but they were all of the highest quality and done in superb taste. While too incorrect for my liking, it obviously appealed to the crowd at the auction.

Quote from: KevinC on January 19, 2015, 03:48:09

RM sold the SL that was the original subject of this post for $181K including buyer's premium.

http://rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1071707

Gooding sold this one for $99k.

http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1970-mercedes-benz-280-sl-4/

I saw the Gooding car in person and can't imagine how the RM car was worth almost double the value.

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Author Topic: OK! What Wrong With This 1970 (280) SL? (Read 23001 times)

KevinC

KevinC

KevinC

paulr

paulr

dseretakis