Internet Car Fraud

[Brian in NL]

Does anyone know if there is a UK or EU agency that takes complaints and/or investigates car fraud?

I came acriss a classic Mercedes that was priced way too low. I inquired and it became clear pretty quick that the "seller" was working a fraud scheme. I just don't know who to report it to.

The seller states she is in the UK but the address she gave does not exist. She has run the ad on websites in the Netherlands and France.

[Paul & Dolly]

You can try these,

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-online-shopping-fraud

I have no experience of their status though,

Paul

[Brian in NL]

Thanks, Paul. I filled out the online form so we'll see what happens. Since no actual fraud has occurred, I sort of doubt they will pursue it.

[Panzer82]

This is so common... I regularly see photos of cars I have put up on eBay taken and posted to Hemmings for sale by someone else... a really nice 280SL for $30,000 is too good to be true, and my house is in the background.

I've had my photos and descriptions taken from eBay and posted to Hemmings, AutoTraderClassics.com and other sites, probably 6 or 7 times.

I just email the website (Hemmings / whoever) and tell them and they take the ads down. I can't imagine anyone is going to do anything about such complaints... the 'boys down at the crime lab' probably don't have the time or the resources to try to track someone in Eastern Europe or the middle east down... where would they prosecute.

This will just happen, you just have to realize that if it's too good to be true, it is, and walk away... it's a scam.

Wanting to report such things is admirable... but consider the size of the world and the web... it's an impossible task, it's just the way of the new world.

[Brian in NL]

True, indeed. And usually there are enough red flags that you would have to be pretty gullible to fall for the scam. This one used a website for a non-existent trucking company. The "seller" said she would take the car to the depot and once it was secured, the shipping company would advise me and I could pay for the car, but the money would not be released until I took possession of it and approved it. Right. I have to say the website was quite well done, but when it did not pop up on a Google search -- or any reference to the company -- it was clear it was a fake.

But, of course, the low, low price was the first clue.

[tel76]

Brian,
Can you please share the website with us all so that the whole community will see what is going on?

[Bo90]

My joy of becoming a newby on this forum has decended to agony
I have been sucked into a 280sl purchase with a few thousand flushed down the toilet.
Gullible? A little but my state of mental health isn't great so rational judgment is lacking.
The website that fooled me was
www.noriscars.com --- I first spotted a 280sl 1970 on www.classicdriver.com from this garage.

I want to thank sincerely Anders from Sweden who took time to confirm the fraud, sadly I had transferred monies beforehand.

[Cees Klumper]

That is terrible, so sorry to hear this. I hope something can be done to recover the money. When I googled the name there was information that the site is hosted in Germany, for what that is worth. I hope you don't give up on getting a Pagoda.

[tel76]

Come on Brian, Please respond.
There is one in the UK that appears to be a scam.

[Jonny B]

FYI it may be a little bit of time before Brian can reply. Rumor has it that he decided to go back to the Goodwood revival this year - this weekend.

[tel76]

JB, I am in Austria at the moment, I can still reply to questions.

[Jonny B]

Just don't know when or how Brian may be able to access the net.

[Brian in NL]

Hi All,

Sorry for the silence from my end ... Jon was right, I was in Goodwood for a long weekend of sighing over beautiful old cars. And now I am in Frankfurt preparing for the motor show. Busy days!

An update on the car I found that was too good to be true.  I suspected it was a fraud from the start, because the price was so ridiculously low. The car showed up on two websites, one based in the Netherlands, the other in France. After responding via the Dutch site, I got a reply from the alleged seller. We exchanged a few emails as described below.  Later, I decided to respond to the French site and, sure enough, I got the exact same email from the "seller." In both, she indicated she had a few people interested but she would give me first stab at the car since I was "the first" to respond. And she said she had found this great shipping company to handle the transaction; I would pay up front, but she would not get the money until the car was delivered in the condition promised.

I have reported both of these ads to the websites, but they are still live as of this afternoon.

Here's the ad on the Dutch site:

http://autos.tweedehands.net/klassiekers-oldtimers/mercedes-220-se-cabriolet-1963.html

And the French site:

http://auto.annoncesjaunes.fr/annonce-automoto/206/nuits-st-georges/essence-mercedes-classe-e-cabriolet-serie-214-220-se-cabriolet-1992/991facf3-363a-47b6-b856-2b1d734b1464.html#xts=453649&s2=3&xtor=AL-1135-[Shopbot]-[Trovit]--[Intext]--&xtdt=24037316

The best thing to do with internet sales is to either see the car in person or have a friend check it out. In some cities, there are businesses that will do this for you for a fee. In this case, I asked to see the car and the "seller' gave me a false address. So it was pretty clear it was a fraud. But they play on your desire to get a great deal on a car you really want. And in this case, the "seller" had a pretty good story ... she got the car from her ex-husband and just wanted rid of it. She was from Sweden and had just moved to the UK for a job, and didn't like driving it on the left side of the road. All sounded plausible. But if the car and price sound way too good to be true, it probably is.

Brian

[JamesL]

If it looks too good to be true, it probably is... (Brian, note the location!!!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1967-Porsche-911/252083527735?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32694%26meid%3D197102d83b0c4942a3bcb68661d395db%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D10%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D181861438254

[Brian in NL]

FYI, I got an email from the Dutch "Tweedehands.net" site that the offending ad has been removed. It remains on the French site.

Buyer beware!

[alfie1977]

I would be wary if  it's  a Swedish company  selling old Mercedes and Porsches. I contact a  company called Axvall  classics in Sweden about a 280sl. You can normally tell if it's a scam if suggest flying out. And arranging shipping yourself! Soon  puts the scammers off.
Alfie  ( very happy with my newly arrived 230sl )