Seat Belt Color

[DickLewis]

I just got my 1967 250SL to the interior restorer today after the 2 year preparation and painting.  I have what I thought were the original seat belts -- they have the year 1967 on the inside from American Safety Corp.  They are not Kangol belts.  The current color appears to be somewhere between burnt gold and darker brown.  My interior restorer said that the colors have faded greatly and that these belts, although probably original, were originally much darker and maybe black.  Can you all help with the original color back in 1967.

Greatly appreciate thoughts.

Dick

[KevinC]

Lots of info if you use the search tool. Like this....

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=6352.0

Most pre kangol early belts I have seen are kind of an olive/khaki color no matter what color the interior is.

I sent my belts to Ssnake Oyl in Tyler Texas and they were fitted with new webbing similar to the original color.

[DickLewis]

Kevin,

Thanks so much.  Yes I followed the links and those are like mine.  Mine even have the year 1967 on the label attached to the belt so I thought they were original.  I really want originality so I may also send them to Ssnake Oyl.

Appreciate the input.

Dick

[DickLewis]

Kevin,

Were your belts the pre-Kangol belts or not?   If they were the original khakki color were they able to do it like the original and approximately what did they charge?

If the original material is not available I am trying to figure out what I should do ---- go to black or make the color match the interior since I can't do the original anyway.

Let me know.

Dick

[66andBlue]

..  I have what I thought were the original seat belts -- they have the year 1967 on the inside from American Safety Corp.  ....

Dick,
I can fully understand that you want to preserve the originality of your car, however, but only those items listed on your data are really original to your car.
Seat belts made by American Safety Corp. unfortunately are not, they were installed by the USA dealer at the request of the owner. The only seat belts sanctioned by Mercedes were Kangols and later the ones sold under the Mercedes label.
Thus, keep in mind that even refurbished Hickok belts are not really original equipment.

[kampala]

Seat belts made by American Safety Corp. unfortunately are not, they were installed by the USA dealer at the request of the owner. The only seat belts sanctioned by Mercedes were Kangols and later the ones sold under the Mercedes label.

Alfred, the American Safety Corp. seat Belt documentation that came with my 250sl is labeled for "Mercedes"    Would you still consider these not sanctioned by Mercedes?    See photos.    Would appreciate your thoughts. 

[66andBlue]

Hi Oz,
in retrospect I agree that "sanctioned" is the wrong terminology. What I meant to say is that Hickok belts were never installed by the factory nor could they be ordered with the car. They were strictly aftermarket, and only installed by US dealers.
There is no doubt that Hickok did market them for Mercedes cars, as a matter of fact the belts in my 1964 230SL actually have a label that shows that they were made to fit the car.
What is interesting in this context is that the belts were never installed the way Mercedes prepared the car for seat belts. In the early 1963/1964 230SL you have two designated points for belt installation, one on top of each B-pillar and the other on the transverse member where it meets the tunnel. Later cars have the three attachment points that we all know about. Nevertheless, the aftermarket Hickok lap belts - I have never seen a Hickok 2-point shoulder belt - were always mounted to the floor behind the seats, ignoring the prepared attachment points that existed in the car.  Whether this was a DOT requirement or simply lazy convenience by the installer I do not know.
Mercedes offered lap belts for the W113 as SA 55638 starting with VIN 006055 and the part number: 113 860 09 85; of course those were not made by Hickok!
The company also issued an addendum to the BBB for the installation of 3-point Kangol belts for Mercedes cars made after August 1965, page 7 is shown below.

[kampala]

Alfred,

Thanks --- makes perfect sense.   Appreciate the details.

[DickLewis]

Thanks for the information.  This also makes sense to me and is similar to Rolls Royce parts that were supplied here in the states that did not come from the factory.  I will proceed to keep them since they were a part of the car as delivered to the original buyer.

[KevinC]

Mine are Hickok also. I guess it depends if you consider "original" to be "installed at the factory" or "how the vehicle was delivered".

[W113SL]

I have a 1967 250SL, Picked up in Europe by the first owner, then shipped back to the selling dealer. It has Hickock lap belts that were originally black.  The belts were probably mandated in the US at that time, but perhaps not in  Europe.

As Far as I am concerned, these are considered correct as it came delivered from the dealer  to the US owners that way.

I also own a model year 1968 250SL which has a three point system original to the car, but not Kangol.l

W113L

Pete Lesler

[66andBlue]

OK, I would consider them perhaps "correct" but not "original". 
The simple reason is that when the order was placed for the 1967 250SL in the USA for delivery in Europe (most likely at the factory, the data card would show that) it could have included as a special order ("Sonderausstattung") Mercedes (or Kangol?) seat belts.
The car was delivered at the factory to the owner and not by the dealer, "correct"? 

[Jordan]

Alfred, how do you explain my lap belts. 

They are Hickok, blue by the way, dated 1966 on the tag, which is the build date for the car.  The car is a Euro car sold in Stuttgart.  It did not go to the US until several years later.  I can't see the Kangol belts having been replaced with Hickok, and if they were installed when the car went to the US, how did they find 1966 dated belts? 

[66andBlue]

Hi Jordan,
obviously I cannot explain any historical events in your cars life but we can discuss possible scenarios.  
For that you need to look at your data card first.
Was the car ordered with seat belts, for example, 431 or 434? If no option codes then I would deduce that your belts were installed in the USA.
That your belts have a 1966 tag doesn't mean much, imo, because it does not mean that it is a manufacturing date, it could be an approval date, or even that they were "NOS" Hickok belts when they were installed several years later.
My main point in all of these nauseating seat belt discussions is that Hickok belts were never installed or sold by the factory, they were strictly USA aftermarket belts.

This situation is quite similar to ordering a radio with a W113 car. If one was ordered when the car order was placed then the factory installed a Becker radio (or perhaps a Telefunken in other models like a Ponton). If it was not ordered, the dealership could still install one, either a Becker radio or any of the other aftermarket radios, but most often a Blaupunkt. So, is a Blaupunkt an "original" radio for a W113 car, my answer is "no", although it is certainly an appropriate and period correct installation, either by the Mercedes dealer or the Bosch dealer, or another independent shop.  

[DickLewis]

Since I started this I have done my own research and Alfred is absolutely correct and I applaud his last reply.   We have all learned a lot about a rather small but interesting item.

Thank you Alfred.