POLL: How's your oil consumption?

[Douglas]

I'd like to know how much oil your Pagoda burns and how mine compares. My 1970 280 SL with its original 105K motor is burning a quart every 1,000 miles.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[hauser]

Doug, I have had my my a couple years and have not had to add any oil to the engine.  Of course I've only put on 2000 km in that time.  My oil changes are every 6 mos and am using Castol GTX 25-50.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[CarlG]

Before I got my engine rebuilt a few years ago I was having to add a quart every 200-300 miles.  Since then I have not had to add any.  I will be going in to get it changed in the next few weeks at 6 months and a little more than 2,000 miles.

1967 230sl (stick)

[gwuisman]

My car uses 1 liter every 1000 kilometer all the five years I own it. I drive about 7000 km´s in a year.

Gerard Wuisman
1970 280sl

[J. Huber]

I only occasionally have to top off my oil. If you do the math I think it would be about a quart every 3000KMs (1800 Miles).



James
63 230SL

[Benz Dr.]

Hauser,
your car left my place with AMS/OIL ATF and gear lube in the rear axel. I may have put the same ATF in the power steering too but I can't remember now.
I remember Tom saying how well it ran when he picked it up and that it never shifted that well before.

Daniel G Caron

[Albert-230SL]

The same as Gerard Wuisman: around 1 liter every 1000 km

Regards

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[bpossel]

My 1971 280sl (original engine w/84k miles) seems to burn more oil during high speed, highway miles.  When I drove the car from Sedona, AZ. to Memphis, TN. (1,800 miles, average speed 65-70mph) it used about 1.5 quarts.  City driving seems to be less.  Not sure why???
Bob :?:

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

I'd like to know how much oil your Pagoda burns and how mine compares. My 1970 280 SL with its original 105K motor is burning a quart every 1,000 miles.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320

[J. Huber]

For what its worth, a German-MBZ-trained mechanic once told me that it is fully normal (even necessary) for our cars to use up "some" oil. Something to do with oil moving past the seals or something.
Dan or Joe A., would you agree?

James
63 230SL

[rwmastel]

"Normal" oil usage is documented in the owner's manual, I think.  I'll look tonight.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Jonny B]

I get about 1 qt per 1000 miles, using Castrol Syntec. I do an oil change in the spring when I get ready for the driving season, and another in the fall getting ready for the winter's sleep.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[Douglas]

Johnny B,

Just to put that into perspective, could you describe the condition and mileage of your motor, please?

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[Jonny B]

The engine was rebuilt before I purchased the car a year and a half ago. New Mahle 1mm over pistons and rings, new main and rod bearings, new oil pump, new camshaft rockers, ball pin adjusters. The odometer shows ~68K, but I believe 168K is correct.

Currently, it runs great, no blue smoke just a fun little machine, as they are supposed to be.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[waqas]

Yet another data point: bought the car about 6mos ago (107K km I think), replaced the oil, filter and seals immediately (it was missing the thick 'donut' seal <shudder>) using mobil 1 synthetic. I've since put on about 3000km, and haven't noticed any drop in the oil level (I check fluids every weekend). It's a daily driver-- basically therapy after the office, and I drive it hard, about half highway and half city, for about 20mins each way. However, my transmission and differential do leak noticably, and I've been topping them off every month or so (drive train maintenace is a-calling).

<begin_rant>
Not long ago, I ran into another pagoda owner (not literally, of course) who lamented his car's unquenching thirst for oil, and had resigned himself to driving it only once or twice a month. He could clearly afford the rebuild, but somehow had the idea that not driving it would prevent it from getting worse, thereby allowing the car to stay 'original' (whatever THAT means). But he was only driving it ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH! Talk about self-denial. Kindly allow me to provide some unsolicited advice for those of you who like to clean your cars with diapers and worship each sq. mm of your detailed engine bays: drive your cars! I understand the appreciation of a finely preserved automobile, but by God, driving this car is so therapeutic, it may just let you live longer-- to enjoy your pagoda even further! If it needs maintenance, do it, or have it done. If you can't afford to, then sell the car and buy something which still uses the same GM parts from the 60s! (read: cheap to maintain, just expect a lot of 'face time' with the innards)
<end_rant>

Ahem, forgive my temporary breach of decorum expected of a Pagoda owner  

waqas
--
1965 230 SL Euro, 4sp. manual

[ja17]

Hello waqas,
Some people are driven to perfection and may never feel the peace of mind by being able to park the pagoda without worrying about a door ding or loose shopping cart.
But it is costly and difficult to keep up these cars.

There are many owners lucky enough to have non-show good drivers to be driven and enjoyed on a daily basis.

It seems that the best running cars are driven on a somewhat regular basis.

On the other hand lot of satisfaction and enjoyment can also be gained by preservation and restoration.

I appreciate both, showers and drivers and everything inbetween.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[bpossel]

Is it normal to burn more oil during high speed highway miles vs. city driving?

Bob

quote:Originally posted by ja17

Hello waqas,
Some people are driven to perfection and may never feel the peace of mind by being able to park the pagoda without worrying about a door ding or loose shopping cart.
But it is costly and difficult to keep up these cars.

There are many owners lucky enough to have non-show good drivers to be driven and enjoyed on a daily basis.

It seems that the best running cars are driven on a somewhat regular basis.

On the other hand lot of satisfaction and enjoyment can also be gained by preservation and restoration.

I appreciate both, showers and drivers and everything inbetween.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320

[ja17]

Hello waqas,
It sounds like you have a very heathy engine. Yes these engines, when new or kept healthy, used very little oil. Normally they would not use a quart of oil between 3,000 mile oil changes. Often times not any noticable oil usage at all. The high oil consumtion figure in the BBB is "allowable oil usage" and is confused with what is "normal oil usage when new".
I have serviced many of these cars since just off warranty new and know this to be a fact.
Everyone else should not panic, Mercedes knows time and miles takes a toll and has a fairly high allowable oil usage rate due to common wear.
If your engine is oil fouling spark plugs and bellowing clouds of oil smoke you may have to do repairs.
If your engine has less than 150,000 miles on it and  has never had the head reconditioned, a valve job (head reconditioning) will solve oil consumption problems 90 % of the time ( a risk well worth taking when faced with the cost of a major rebuild). If you do have to do a total break down and rebbuild, do not scrimp on pistons and rings. Bore the block and install new pistons and rings.
Just replacing the piston rings in old worn engines will usually not solve the oil consumption problem.
Oil consumption figures inbetween no usage and high usage may be the result of normal wear, allowing some wear to remain in re-worked engines (valve guide clearences, cylinders etc, greater machining clearences than factory, or improper assembly (loose valve seals etc).
Pay attention to "rate of change". If something is going on you will see the consumption getting progressively worse!
Extended high rpm engine speeds increases oil temperature dratically. and a little more consumption is normal.
I used to run a Rallycar (with w113 engine) for long periods over 4,000 rpm and frequently up to redline. After a 800 mile event I would normally use about a pint of oil or less. Under normal running it would not use any noticable amount. This engine had 150,000 miles on it with only a recent head re-conditoning.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[waqas]

Hi Joe,
You're right of course. Each of us has our own level of interest/satisfaction. I'm a driver, not a collector, and in much the same way I spend all my time putting back together things I've taken apart for no apparent reason, the interest of function always supercedes form (although the Pagoda certainly provides a compelling argument for both). I guess this is what makes our little community so unique: it draws a wide range of interests into our sphere. Anyway, point taken. (it's just that these cars are sooooooo much fun to drive....)

I've read here and there a thing or two about your 250 rallying days, and I'd love to hear all about it sometime (your much-lauded technical sessions sound fantastic! I hope I can make it next year). Being a relatively recent inductee into the auto DIY crowd, your decades of experience sound quite overwhelming.

On a more relevant note, my 230 engine (without oil cooler) takes only about 5.6L of oil before the dipstick reads at the high mark. I've read somewhere that over-filling these engines is worse than under-filling (to a point, of course), as the piston rings are unable to push back all the oil from the cylinder walls when there is so much splashing around. How much of this is true?

Kind regards

waqas
--
1965 230 SL Euro, 4sp. manual

[ja17]

Hello waqas,

Thanks, I never thought this information and knowledge would be of much use these days until I found you guys. Many of you have become experts also from all the information available here. I always learn something myself.

Don't get me started on Rallying, we will be here all night!

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As far as overfilling of oil; I am sure there is a slight margin of error for allowing for slightly overfilling. I would suspect about a pint.
Gross overfilling will cause the crankshaft to beat the oil into a froth (like egg nog). When the oil foams the oil pump will pick up the air/oil mix which will not properly lubricate and will decrease oil pressure.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[A Dalton]

J.A.,
 Is that a 114/115 ??
Tnx

[ja17]

Hello ADalton,
Yes, a 1968 250/8 (W114)with a 280-SL engine, 4spd, lightened to about 2200 lbs.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[A Dalton]

JA
 That's Great ...

 I owned a 114 for many yrs. A 1971 250 with the 2.8 M130 carb engine and I must say that it was the best Benz I have yet to own...
SOLID car..Everyone keeps them until the  heater blower craps out... they built the chassis around that .
 ..and real MB/TEX .. you still see them in the scrap yards , rotted to the roof, but still  perfect seats ..b/g..