Author Topic: 230SL production numbers manual 4 speed vs automatic  (Read 5361 times)

perry113

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230SL production numbers manual 4 speed vs automatic
« on: August 07, 2016, 02:00:35 »
I was talking to William Gustin today who is a German Mercedes Porsche mechanic who worked on W111's and Pagoda's back when they were new cars. He was raving on and on about the 230SL being his favorite of the W113 line with it's engine specification being unique to the 230SL. He also insisted that there were less 230SL automatics produced than 4 speed manuals. Can anyone validate this claim?

Does the factory and forum have the production ratio of 230SL 4 speed manuals to automatics?

Can anyone expand upon what the forum has listed?

Here are the 230sl numbers as listed here:
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear

Year Total Production        Total Export          US Export
1963 1465                       693                      140
1964 6911                       3326                    782
1965 6325                       3663                    1429
1966 4945                       3675                    2067
1967 185                         369                      334

Total 19831                     11726                   4752
Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car

Benz Dr.

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Re: 230SL production numbers manual 4 speed vs automatic
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2016, 22:17:52 »
I'd say less than 90 cars were auto in 1963. I have no idea how many were made in total.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

114015

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Re: 230SL production numbers manual 4 speed vs automatic
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2016, 21:22:33 »
Hello Peter,

Benz Dr. (Dan) is right.
At the beginning of the production run there were very few 113s with Automatic, and the later the production run was (late 280) the more there were, perhaps close to 80%.

Mercedes did not count properly how many were automatics and how many were stick shifts...
You "can" somehow count that by the engine serial numbers that were built since both engine types were numbered starting from 1.
E.g. for the 230 SL engine (M127II) the engine is part of the parts catalogue (10062, 1097 and 10126). The running changes were recorded in the parts list, e.g. upt to serial no. and from serial number (+1) onwards.
As there were plenty of changes on these cars & engines, the changes go up to about approx. 14 - 15,000 engines -10- and -20- (i.e. stick stift) and about 6,000 -12- and -22-. The numbers here are from my memories, so not exact.

What you do see is this:
1) there were more engines in total than cars (about 20,000 something versus 19,831 230ies)
2) about 2/3 or a bit more 230ies were stick shift, the rest were automatics.

It was reported (but I do not have a good literature citation here) that about half of the 250ies were stick shift and the other half automatics and about 2/3 (or a few more) 280ies were automatics, the remainder stick shifts.

Fact is :
1) the closer to 1963 - the less automatics
2) the closer to 1971 - the more automatics
3) the closer to 1963 - the more leather interior cars
4) the closer to 1971 - the more MB Tex cars.

These numbers are _no_ database numbers from an Excel-, SAP- or Oracle-like database. There were only paper datacards but no proper calculations on this (only the export numbers).

But roughly the numbers are correct.


Achim
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 14:10:37 by 114015 »
Achim
(Germany)

perry113

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Re: 230SL production numbers manual 4 speed vs automatic
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2016, 23:43:57 »
Thank you for the replies.
The 8th digit in each W113 vin number represents what transmission (0 manual 2 automatic) so it would be easy to filter out if the master VIN list if it was in Excel.
The question then is does the full list exist that type of format. Maybe someone like Gunter Engelen or somebody who had or still has access to the Pagoda factory archives.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 00:43:58 by perry113 »
Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car