Travis' Pagoda M130 EFI Conversion Thread

[Travis71280]

Hi all,

Just wanted to start a thread on a new project I am going to be working on. I have a 1971 280sl I will be converting to sequential EFI. I know I am not the first person to do this with one of our cars, but I am going to try and make a factory (probably not period correct though) appearing conversion, and one that will involve all bolt on parts such that I can swap back to the factory MFI at any time (don't worry purists, I will not be modifying any factory parts). This will be a slow build since I am still working on my PhD at UF, so I'll be doing this in my spare time. I wouldn't mind putting together a kit if anybody is interested if everything goes well, as I will be making detailed notes as I go through the process. Budget wise I'm shooting to stay under $1600 total for this project, but I'll see how it goes. I'll be posting pictures of my progress here and feel free to chime in with any questions or comments along the way.

[Cees Klumper]

Great initiative Travis. I'm not familiar with other conversions like this on Pagoda's so will be watching your experience with great interest.

[hauser]

There is one company in Germany that does this sort of customization.  Stickel.

[Shvegel]

Have you considered Bosch K-Jetronic more commonly known as CIS.  It's a good system once you get to know it and much more easily adapted to the M130.

[Travis71280]

Never heard of Stickel until you mentioned it. Wonder what ECU they are running on their cars.

I have not considered Bosch K-Jetronic, I was actually planning on running a Megasquirt II system on it. Does CIS have a TPS that will work on these cars? If not I'm going to try and adapt a TPS sensor out of a late model Chevy Silverado.

I have already bought some Accel 21lb/hr fuel injectors and an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator. I am now waiting on some threaded fuel injector bosses that will screw in where the original MFI injectors go. I messed up and got some M14x1.5 threads so I had to send them back and get them in a M14x1.25 (its the same thread as the spark plugs BTW). Once I get those in (from EFI Hardware, they are located in Australia) I can go ahead and start CADing up the fuel rail, running fuel lines to it, etc.

[GGR]

I would recommend you leave your original engine alone and start with another base. Reason being that the original MFI system needs to be deleted.

Starting with a 250 motor originally fitted with the D-jet system (as on W114s) will end up with a much cleaner result. It is already fitted fit all the EFI hardware, so it's quite easy to plug Megasquirt on it. You can bore the engine to 2.8 liters and swap the camshaft. Or fit the 250 head on a 280 S (carbed) short block. Benz Doctor has one of these 250 engines lying around if you're interested.

This way you still have your original engine untouched and ready to go back in when you want to put your car back to original.

[Travis71280]

Sorry I haven't updated in a while, the screw in injector adaptors I sent out got stuck in Australian custom, so the company is just now sending the correct threaded adapters back. Also I'm taking a break on the project for this month since I have to study for my PhD qualifying exam  but I will start back on it start of September.

GGR, thanks for the advice. I do agree with you that would probably be the easier route, but I don't foresee the MFI system removal to be that bad of an ordeal. I plan on being able to bolt all the stock parts back up to go back to the stock MFI setup at any time (granted that might be a long time if the EFI works as good as I believe it will  ).

By the way here are the injectors and the fuel pressure regulator I ordered. The next thing I will be working on is fabricating the fuel rail, removing the existing MFI system, and then running all the fuel plumbing.

[Raymond]

Just to complicate matters, but with real potential, would you consider a way to link your EFI software to a programmable 123 Ignition distributor?

[Travis71280]

Funny you should mention that. I was actually going to control the factory distributor with the ECU ( basically the ECU is firing the coil in the dizzy instead of the points) thus allowing me to adjust the whole spark table.

[Shvegel]

Travis,
You might want to look at cylinder bore spacing on both BMW and Mercedes engines of the 80's.  Both used Bosch injectors and you might find a fuel rail that will work in there somewhere.  

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablersn.htm

[Travis71280]

So I'm going to blow the dust off this thread. Since my last post I've been tied up with school and am just now getting back to this project. Unfortunately I'm going to have to wait till January to machine the fuel rail, crank sensor mounts, etc. since the University is on winter break, but in the mean time I'm going to try and upgrade the ignition system. I'm going to install a MSD box, Blaster II coil, and a Pertronix Ignitor I unit whenever I get time these next couple of weeks. Reason being is the ECU will eventually control the MSD box and the Pertronix unit will be modified to be used as the Cam signal to the ECU, thus enabling sequential injection, but for now I'll have the Pertronix fire the MSD box instead.

[Shvegel]

Having used that exact Ignition setup on a race prepped Porsche 911 you might want to conside soldering a wire between the center contact and the end of the distributor rotor.  The amperage is too much for the stock rotor and it will fry in short order.

[Tyler S]

Travis, the guys over on the Porsche forums have already begun with a MFI to EFI conversion for their cars. The old Porsche/Bosch MFI system is almost identical to the ones in our cars. Just mounting and cosmetic differences.   There is even a starter kit for injector lines that solves the fuel rail issue. Pelican Parts now lists it for sale. May be a good place to look for work arounds to common issues. Heres a link, scroll down the page.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/911E/POR_911E_FULINJ_pg1.htm

Another breed is the Ford Capri. Again a very similar bosch system used in those. Guys have been converting those to EFI for years now.

[Travis71280]

Having used that exact Ignition setup on a race prepped Porsche 911 you might want to conside soldering a wire between the center contact and the end of the distributor rotor.  The amperage is too much for the stock rotor and it will fry in short order.

Thanks for the heads up Shvegel. Ill definitely keep an eye on the rotor. Did you have to drill vent holes in your distributor as well? Just wondering if I might have to do that to prevent miss firing with a small distributor cap.

Travis, the guys over on the Porsche forums have already begun with a MFI to EFI conversion for their cars. The old Porsche/Bosch MFI system is almost identical to the ones in our cars. Just mounting and cosmetic differences.   There is even a starter kit for injector lines that solves the fuel rail issue. Pelican Parts now lists it for sale. May be a good place to look for work arounds to common issues. Heres a link, scroll down the page.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/911E/POR_911E_FULINJ_pg1.htm

Another breed is the Ford Capri. Again a very similar bosch system used in those. Guys have been converting those to EFI for years now.

Thanks Tyler. I took a look at the link and I already have the bosses which I bought for about half the price here: https://www.efihardware.com/products/2344/Injector-Boss-Screw-In-Aluminium . I'm really wanting to run a fuel rail on it to keep the injectors from popping out from a miss fire and possibly causing a fuel fire. The fun part has been trying to find a way to secure the fuel rail, but I think I have an idea of how to do just that. I'll check out the Ford Capri as well like you said to get some more ideas.

[Shvegel]

Travis,
Stock distributor(small diameter) recurved distributor, no vent holes.

[Travis71280]

So I installed the MSD 6AL the other day and upgraded the stock Bosch Coil to the 45,000V Blaster II coil. Right now I have the points triggering the MSD Box (green wire from dizzy to white wire on MSD wiring harness) and bypassing the ballast resistor. This is because I didn't realize I had the later Bosch 010 distributor and not the 051 which I had order the Ignitor for. Luckily when I send it back I am ordering an Ignitor II instead since you can leave the Ignition on (when the engine is not running) and not have to worry about burning the ignition module up (unlike the Ignitor I). The car started on the first start to my surprise (its been sitting for over a year) and seems to idle a lot nicer than it was before. I mounted the MSD Box on the bracket beside the brake booster using the factory holes.

[Travis71280]

I also wanted to note I also installed an Auto Meter Sportsman Wideband O2 sensor right behind the exhaust manifold for Cylinders 1,2, and 3 due to close proximity to the exhaust head and protected from road debris when driving down the road. This will eventually be used to tell the ECU if the engine is running rich or lean.

[Tyler S]

Are you also using that o2 for input to the megasquirt? If so you may want to add a bank 2 sensor on the other pipe and mod the megasquirt for it. Especially if you are going to fire the injectors sequentially.   

[Travis71280]

I will eventually (the auto meter gauges have an analog out for that purpose). I thought about putting one on each bank like you said and may still do just that a little down the road (especially since you can individually tailor fuel maps for individual cylinders), but for now I'm going to run just one and assume both banks are behaving the same which will be able to get the car running for now. I'm going to double check though and do a compression test to check the health and put an IR gun to the exhaust runners just to verify that once it is running.