distributor replacement

[lex280]

Hi,

Can i simply replace a 0231 116 051 ditributor with a 0 231 185 009?

Dwell for a 051 is 40° and for a 009 30°?

Can anybody confirm please.

Thanks.

[lex280]

Hi,

as well i have a lot of clearance on my distributor.
As i tried several distributors and a 123 ignition i know the problem is located somewhere deeper.
In the movie you can see the clearance.
Anybody familair with this?

thanks.

ps: engine has +600.000km

[Tyler S]

Lex, yes the 009 distributer is a direct replacement for the 051.
As far as your "clearance" I cannot access your video. Is there play in the shaft?
If there is slop in the rotation, you may want to remove the distributer drive gear. It lifts right out of the front cover distributer mount with a magnet. Have a look at the gear at the end of it as well as the gear on the intermediate shaft down the hole.

[Benz Dr.]

Cast iron distributors generally have 38 degrees of dwell and aluminium ones have 30 degrees. This is a matter of having a different profile on the point set which produces differences in dwell.

I use a couple of shims under the drive gear below the distributor and I've been able to remove all play in that area.

[lex280]

Hi,

On this link you can see the 'play' on the distributor.

Thanks for all your feedback already!

https://youtu.be/s_W4_QN9CsI

[lex280]

Benz Dr: What do you mean by having a different profile on the point set which produces differences in dwell?

I need to have 4° ATDC at idle and 30° BTDC at 3000rpm right?

[Benz Dr.]

You know, I really can't explain it but the design of the points will give different dwell angles. They both gap about the same amount and yet they produce different dwell angles - the numbers I gave you are correct. You should be running 8 degrees BTDC at idle and around 38 degrees at 3,000 RPM. The distributor will advance 30 degrees and your initial timing at idle is combined to produce at total of 38 if everything is working correctly.
Mechanical advance should be 20 degrees and vacuum should be 10 degrees for a total of 30 for the replacement unit. I think the aluminium distributor is preset to 10 degrees of vacuum and is not adjustable while the cast iron units are at the pull rod on the vacuum cell.

[lex280]

Any comment on the clearance?
The video is on youtube now. should be visible.


thanks

[Cees Klumper]

I'm not positive (my car and I are on different continents) but that doesn't look abnormal to me.

I would put the 123 distributor back in, check as Tyler suggests in reply 2, and look for other causes.

[Benz Dr.]

You have too much play in the gear set that drives the distributor. Remove your distributor and pull the gear out of the housing that it sits underneath. You will need a number of small shims that look like washers to raise the gear and remove the play that's between the gears. Or, you could replace the aluminium housing because that's where all of your wear will be found. Add a few shims under the gear between the gear and the end of the shaft, then replace the gear and see if you have any back lash in the gear set by trying to move the drive gear with a screw driver. If there's any play keep adding shims until it's gone. The rotor should only move as much as the flyweights inside the distributor moves. If you can move your rotor backwards beyond this amount you have too much play in the gear set.
 
 I use the small shims that are found in a distributor rebuilt kit. Funny thing is, I used to throw them away because I never needed them for anything until I saw this potential use.

[Tyler S]

A worn intermediate/IP shaft bushing can also cause play in the distributer drive/driven gear. If this is the case the distributer shaft gear will look "chewed up" on the leading edges of the teeth.
You may also want to check the oil pump drive gear, under the tachometer thrust bushing, for play and wear. These usually wear faster then the distributer drive gears so if it hasnt been repaired, it most likely is very worn as well.

[mbzse]

.../... the oil pump drive gear, under the tachometer thrust bushing, for play and wear.../...

Wise to check this. When the drive becomes _really_ worn, the oil pump will stop spinning...  this will end your trip rather abruptly... 

[Benz Dr.]

The timing chain should hold the gear tightly as long as the chain isn't loose so I'm not sure if this would be a factor. It's the gear on the end of the intermediate shaft and the one below the distributor that's in question here. If those two gears are not aligned properly you will get play in the gear set which will translate into excessive rotor movement. This will give you uneven idle speed - while driving you may see 1,200 or more and if you shut your engine off and then restart without touching the throttle, while ending up with 600 RPM, this would be the likely cause.

You can fix this by following what I said in the above post. The other bushings in the drive system for the oil pump and IP are also important but best covered ( as they have been ) in another heading.

[lex280]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

On my pagode i got the uneven idle speed...
On the W111 a lot of clearance but even idle speed.

I know what to do ;-)

[RonDwyer]

It cannot be said enough that the breaker plates need to be pulled apart and cleaned occasionally, every 30 years or so.  I pulled my dizzy on the 69 and the vacuum advance (with the dashpot disconnected) had a significant amount of resistance.  With it off the car and the screws removed, pry the plate out and work carefully.  Remove the ball and the spring held on by a screw.  Note the brazed ground wire, do not allow it to break.  There is likely a significant build up of old lube, now gluebe, between the upper and lower plates.  Spray in carb cleaner and as they loosen up look to see how to separate them.  Watch the wire!  Clean this all up, and reassemble with a dry moly lube on the clean metal contact areas.  Experience proper operation with functional pieces before pursuit of so-called upgrades.  My acceleration went from sluggish to incredible. 

[Benz Dr.]

It cannot be said enough that the breaker plates need to be pulled apart and cleaned occasionally, every 30 years or so.  I pulled my dizzy on the 69 and the vacuum advance (with the dash pot disconnected) had a significant amount of resistance.  With it off the car and the screws removed, pry the plate out and work carefully.  Remove the ball and the spring held on by a screw.  Note the brazed ground wire, do not allow it to break.  There is likely a significant build up of old lube, now lube, between the upper and lower plates.  Spray in carb cleaner and as they loosen up look to see how to separate them.  Watch the wire!  Clean this all up, and reassemble with a dry molly lube on the clean metal contact areas.  Experience proper operation with functional pieces before pursuit of so-called upgrades.  My acceleration went from sluggish to incredible.

Yup, done that a lot of times. I also find that the two plates can wear and produce extra play which will make the points close up at higher engine speeds. I have a way to tighten up that area and bring normal function back. I use Bosch distributor grease on all of those areas but I imagine other lubes might also work. I would not use ordinary grease anywhere inside the distributor as it will not stay where you put it and will likely end up on the points with you on the side of the road.