Are Hagerty values useful, or just BS for establishing the value of a car....?

[scoot]

I'm considering an offer that has been placed on my car, that is not currently for sale and hasn't been for 30+ years.

By their definition, my car is a solid #3 Good condition.  They say  $57,000 + $4500 for hardtop +10% for power steering +15% of A/C.   That would put me in at $75,750.  That seems nuts to me.  Opinions?

[JamesL]

If you are tempted to sell, is that a number you'd be tempted to sell it for? Everything has a price and the buyer has no emotional attachment to the car so may get a condition 2 car for not much more money elsewhere or end up more for "less"... if indeed yours is a 3... may be a 4 or a 2 or something in between with numerous nuances
You can therefore argue whether it's a 3-, 3 or 3+ or 3++ or... til you are blue. If the resulting offer is one that would tempt you to part with your car, the "3" is immaterial

No doubt your car doesn't "owe" you that money, and if you sell, what might you replace it with: for example, if you've always fancied an early 911, your $75k isn't going very far but you can but a brilliant Alfa for that money. Or you don't replace it and put the money in the bank to earn you interest...    The issue for me therefore, is, what's your price for a Pagoda shaped hole in your garage? And If you'd buy another Pagoda, what "cost" to do that in terms of car, time, parts and skinned knuckles

[scoot]

Thanks but you way over-analyzed this.   I want to sell it for what market says it's worth.  The car owes me nothing, and I already got rid of a brilliant Alfa.   And I wouldn't buy another Pagoda.  Would rather have the hole in my garage.

If you are tempted to sell, is that a number you'd be tempted to sell it for? Everything has a price and the buyer has no emotional attachment to the car so may get a condition 2 car for not much more money elsewhere or end up more for "less"... if indeed yours is a 3... may be a 4 or a 2 or something in between with numerous nuances
You can therefore argue whether it's a 3-, 3 or 3+ or 3++ or... til you are blue. If the resulting offer is one that would tempt you to part with your car, the "3" is immaterial

No doubt your car doesn't "owe" you that money, and if you sell, what might you replace it with: for example, if you've always fancied an early 911, your $75k isn't going very far but you can but a brilliant Alfa for that money. Or you don't replace it and put the money in the bank to earn you interest...    The issue for me therefore, is, what's your price for a Pagoda shaped hole in your garage? And If you'd buy another Pagoda, what "cost" to do that in terms of car, time, parts and skinned knuckles

[66andBlue]

.... I want to sell it for what market says it's worth.  ....

Since the market talks in many different languages - some may be code others just gibberish - the only way YOU can find out what the car is worth is by advertising it. Give it a try and collect the offers, you don't need to accept them but they might make a nice collage for your hole in the garage! 

[scoot]

What I'm looking for is a good starting price.  My original question should have said "Is the Hagerty price of $75,000 a good starting price or is it bunk?" since it seems high to me.  That's all I wanted.  The car _will_ be sold, probably on eBay at this point...

[Shvegel]

From what I am seeing 75,500 for a number 3 is high although under 3 car just sold for 52,000 on bring a trailer.  IF the car is rust free and lived in California it's entire life(Documented) I could see it being a 65,000 ish car.  I think where I disagree most is the add on items.  $5,000 for a top most people will never use seems high and $7500 for AC seems a little ridiculous. 

I always like when people say they "Got a good deal" on eBay.  I have said it myself but the reality is you paid more than 150 million other people were willing to pay.  I would go on eBay and do an advanced search for sold items and you will have a pretty good idea where the market is at.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I think it's all in the eyes of the beholder. Prices I think are all over the place, You will get lower bids from people that know our cars inside out (once they had a look at it first hand and have taken it for a test drive). Others that have no idea will most likely bid higher then you expect.

I give you an example ... I found my car in March 2013 or thereabouts, after inspecting it and looking at Hagerty I decided that the price asked for it was fair and I purchased the car in May 2013. Later that year I attended the 50 year anniversary in Williamsburg Virginia. My car was on the green and was judged by the people. It got 2nd Place Peoples Choice (the only Canadian car on the green). Some fellow a heavy Texas accent came up to me and said "I see you are from Canada, I'll pay your air ticket home and give you $70K US for it" I told him sorry it's not for sale. His offer was more then double what I paid for it in May of that year. So you see it is all in the eye of the beholder.

I agree strongly with Alfred, put it on line with plenty of good photographs (hire a Professional to do this, you know the people that take photos when you sell a house). Then see how high the offers are.

Only you cannot post it on our site unless you add a price to it (as you know).

Good Luck with the Sale and getting that hole in your garage

Best Dieter

BTW 37 was the year I was born ... must have been my lucky day. ~grin~

[scoot]

From what I am seeing 75,500 for a number 3 is high although under 3 car just sold for 52,000 on bring a trailer.  IF the car is rust free and lived in California it's entire life(Documented) I could see it being a 65,000 ish car.  I think where I disagree most is the add on items.  $5,000 for a top most people will never use seems high and $7500 for AC seems a little ridiculous. 

I think having the hardtop is important - I never use the soft top.  $7500 for the AC is silly.    Unfortunately I have zero documentation on a car that I know to have been in California for the last 30 years.  Bought it from friend of the family 10 years ago and he wasn't the kind to keep paperwork. 

I hadn't thought of looking for comps on Bring A Trailer - thanks!  Already went through ebay and found nothing that matched very well.    But the BAT car that sold for $51,000 I would say is slightly inferior to my car.    The Red 280SL that didn't meet reserve and was bid up to $39,250 is worse than my car.    The 67 250SL that sold for $66,500 is a pretty good match for my car, except it has documented history and a manual transmission.   But this gives me a much better idea.  The 1968 250SL with manual transmission that sold for $60,000 looks nicer than my car.

I always like when people say they "Got a good deal" on eBay.  I have said it myself but the reality is you paid more than 150 million other people were willing to pay.  I would go on eBay and do an advanced search for sold items and you will have a pretty good idea where the market is at.

I've purchased 2 cars on eBay and both of them were good deals.    As for comps on ebay there really aren't any good ones.  My car is nicer than the 230 SLs that sold on ebay and there are no 250SL or 280SL "sold" cars on ebay right now. 

Do you think it's better to sell on Bring a Trailer or ebay?

thanks

[66andBlue]

..
Do you think it's better to sell on Bring a Trailer or ebay?

Have you compared total selling costs between the two?
"How much does it cost to list my car as a BaT Auction? $99. You pay only if we list the car, and you pay whether or not the car sells. You don’t pay more if/when it sells. Just $99, period."
eBay:
You should include PayPal costs (for the down payment) in addition to the eBay fees. On the other hand you could use eBay strictly as an advertising avenue. You know how that works. 

[Alex D]

I have seen the 230SL in person (along with 3 other members from this group) that sold for $51,000 on Bring A Trailer.  One of our members had a slight interest in the car, and asked a couple of us to look at it, we all agreeded that its a $20,000 car max.  The seller was asking $42,000.  Our member and the seller could not reach an agreement and parted ways.  Who ever bought the car at $51k will be in for a big surprise.  I fell off my chair when I heard the final selling price.

Needs paint, has rust, the engine bay needs work, the passenger side arm rest is the wrong color, seats were patched,,

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-mercedes-benz-230sl-2/

[Cees Klumper]

It seems these days minimum value for a clean, driving Pagoda witn no visible rust and a decent interior and sound mechanics is $50K. The ones that are cosmetically super but otherwise similar, go for up to $150-200K. I would aim for $55-65K and you should get that for a 3-level car.

[steven harris]

Not knowing the condition of your car, I would think $75k is a not unreasonable starting place. Obviously the critical issue is rust. Also great to know history. As the owner of a 250SL, I think it is the most desirable of the Pagodas - I like the details similar to the 230 and the improved engine. I think the 280 is a but think and heavy everywhere the 230/250 is light and delicate. Also the rarest. That said, I think a 250 is at least the equivalent of a comparable 280 - even though the market doesn't always agree. Looking for a Pagoda for a friend, there is nothing decent under about $90k and anything good starts about $110 - $125k. See the blue car that didn't sell at Santa Monica RM Sotheby's auction last month. No Sale at bid to $115k hammer. It wasn't perfect. The most reliable index of values is Sports Car Market Auction Database which lists PUBLIC sales. Hagerty is also good as they have information on what people pay for the cars.

[mdsalemi]

I would more likely go with values listed by the SL Market Letter; they are using actual transacted values from a variety of sources, and they identify those sources.
What skews some of the thoughts on values are that the truly exceptional cars (not the ones advertised as such per se) are commanding very high prices; those values seem to have risen faster than the middle of the pack.

What also skews listing prices is some owners think all Pagodas are now highly valued--even those that are best parted out. So, you'll see some crazy asking prices for highly neglected scrap being hauled out of some garage somewhere...

[uptheorg]

Hagerty values can be a good indicator of the way prices are trending over time. And what I have seen in the past eight months is clearly a downward trend. That hasn't affected the high hopes of some of the sellers who refuse to adjust their asking prices.
In May 2017, I bought my 1966 manual transmission 230SL, older restoration, in very good 2+ condition for $56,000. I believe that was right where the market is for a car in this condition, although I had no problem insuring it for $70,000. I don't think the market has changed much since I bought it.



Aside from the incorrect finishes in the engine bay, everything else was correct. The car has no rust and was completely gone over for $10,000+ in 2016 including radiator re-core, new rubber parts wherever they appear (including engine mounts, hoses, tires) and a brand new MBTex interior and carpet. Note the MB battery. The seller wanted to net about $65k, but he accepted my offer. There is documentation back to 1992 including photo docs of the restoration in the late nineties.

[thelews]

that looks like a really nice car and the engine reminds me of the Terminator.  I'd leave it alone.  I think you got a great buy.

[scoot]

This is my car.

[scoot]

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