Author Topic: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question  (Read 12464 times)

Tomnistuff

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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2017, 18:19:01 »
In my last post, reply #22 above, I described the remaining problem with my 65 L Dansk tank fill neck being too short.
Well, it's fixed now and I'm happy with the results.  When I first installed it, it was too short to even fit the grommet in the body hole.  The following photos show the progression of the repairs and final fit.

The first two photos in this post show the head-on view and side view of the filler neck fit in the body hole.  Too short!
The next two photos in this post show where the filler neck was cut in order to extend it.

The last four photos in the next post show the final fit of the tank position and the final fit of the cap, filler neck end and grommet relative to the tank neck.

Tom Kizer
Levis, Quebec, Canada
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 18:28:49 by Tomnistuff »
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Tomnistuff

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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2017, 18:27:17 »
Here is the final set of photos.

the gap between the filler neck inlet and the tank filler neck is between the second and third hose clamps, with the upper clamp on the tank part of the neck (the third from the fill cap) being at the very beginning of the tank neck in order to reduce the tendency of fuel to enter the gap between the hose and neck.

The reason for four clamps is because there is nothing to keep the hose assembly from twisting on the tank neck as the cap is turned other than the friction of the hose due to the tightness and number of clamps.

Tom Kizer
Levis, Quebec, Canada
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

AllenF

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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2017, 19:55:22 »
Hi Folks,

Does anyone know if the later Dansk tank for the 250/280SL can be used in the 230SL?  I also heard some chatter that said the later version didn't have the "flower pot" so there was some concern that it might starve the pump while cornering?

Apparently the earlier 230SL tank is out of stock everywhere. 

Fuel Tank JP Group Dansk 1134700701 is the number shown for the later type.

Any input welcome.

Thanks again,

Allen

114015

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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2017, 20:45:14 »
Quote
Hi Folks,
Does anyone know if the later Dansk tank for the 250/280SL can be used in the 230SL?

Yes Allen...,
This should be possible...
As long as your car was built after serial 007204, i.e. with the flat spare tire.
If you still have a spare wheel well, the 82 liter tank won't fit.

You need to adapt the bracket for the fuel (delivery) pump perhaps but certainly the pump cover (the round one) needs to be replaced towards the late style.


Achim
Achim
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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2017, 20:55:20 »
Your picture:

10 Cap and Grommet Driver Side.JPG

Tom,
That's too far out. It might look (or be) comfortable but that is by no means correct (i.e. original) anymore.
If I were you (I am not ... I know ... ) I would have first compared the both necks (old and new) exactly with each other.
Is the new one really shorter? ???
Your pic "After Rework Side.jpg " doesn't suggest so.
Have you measured the outer diameter (length) of the neck from both tanks?

I would have first fitted the old tank back. Was the neck length fine there?
Then you have at least a measure how that looked initially.
2nd.
If the new neck is shorter - okay. Something needs to be done then.
If not, try to bend the neck rearwards first a bit - just compare with the original tank.

Well, now it is too late, you cut it already.
If it were my tank I would have welded a metal piece (ring) into the gap.
The rubber hose solution doesn't really appeal me. How does that work during filling the tank?
And most important, is the rubber hose really fuel resistant??  :o ???
Otherwise it will "glue" away by time and provide you gas smells everywhere. :-X

Okay, if you do not want to change anything anymore, I would at least shorten the gap between the both metal ends of your cut neck now. The gap is currently too wide.

Please see the attached pic. This is what is correct on an untouched & unmolested 230 SL (not mine). ;)


Best,

Achim
Achim
(Germany)

AllenF

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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2017, 20:55:48 »
Thanks Achim,

So the tank is a bit wider then and gets close to the fuel pump can?   Mine is modified a bit already as I used a modern Bosch pump instead of the original.   Do you think there is any validity to the flower pot issue?   It would seem odd that they would make a replacement tank that would allow fuel to starve in cornering

Thanks again,

Allen

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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2017, 21:06:40 »
Hello Allen !

Quote
...Do you think there is any validity to the flower pot issue?   It would seem odd that they would make a replacement tank that would allow fuel to starve in cornering...


Honestly, I don't know.    ??? ::)    I have not used the replacement tank yet and currently I am also not intending to. My old tank was able to be refurbished and I hope it holds for  a while ... otherwise I am going to remove the rust & debris again (don't hope I need to ... so soon).
Fresh fuel (gas) and a gas tank full all the time are the best protections against new rust,  I assume... ;)

From the pics Tom provided it really looks as if the flower pot (issue) is different in the replacement tank than in the original tank. But I do not know about the function...,
whether there is still a small drain hole (channel) for low level fuel as is with the original flower pot or not.
I think someone with a a bit more of collected (driving) experience yet with the replacement tank needs to report here.


Achim
Achim
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Tomnistuff

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Re: Dansk 65 liter 230SL Fuel Tank Recent Experience Question
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2017, 17:31:03 »
Hi Achim,

It probably is too far out.

I did compare the two necks but I didn’t want to beat a dead horse so I kept the original discussion pretty simple.  The originaI tank neck was fine.  I remember it being like the one you posted, but definitely not so short that I could not install the grommet.  I also searched every Pagoda photo I could find on the web (many, many), but like everything else on the web, there are few details and the photos are not quite high enough resolution nor taken from close enough to really see detail. 
Most of them become pixelated when zoomed.

Regarding the old and new tank and neck comparison, I’ve attached another copy of that photo with lines showing that it was still about 10 mm shorter than the original.  The upper yellow line is a copy of the lower yellow line.  That’s about the best I can do with my tools (a camera and MS Paint).  I tried to eliminate as much parallax as possible when I took the original photo.  The red lines are pretty parallel except for the center of the upper end of the neck, so it really is still just a little shorter.

HOWEVER, I did take into consideration that I would have to “eyeball” the cap location and am able to move the cap either closer or farther from the grommet.  The location in the previous photo is with the grommet against the inner end of the cap cam sleeve.  In the new photo below I have moved the neck end closer to the body and the grommet is actually resting on the outer diameter of the cap cam sleeve about 6 mm from the cap gasket surface.  I tried to make it as much as possible like the photo you posted.

Regarding the photo you posted being correct and untouched, I think I would have said it is original and untouched.  There is probably a range of correct positions.  I would suggest that because there are sheet metal stampings, weld studs and slotted holes involved in the tolerance stack-up between the cap location and the three tank to body attachments, the production cap location tolerance is likely to be at least plus or minus 2 mm.

I sometimes question whether Daimler-Benz engineers are as anal about their cars as we (or at least, I) tend to be.

And finally, yes, the rubber hose is a Gates 24713 (the number denotes the 57 mm ID and 45 degree elbow shape), and is designed as a fuel filler hose.  Here’s what Gates says about this series of hoses.

Fuel Filler Neck Hose
•   Designed specifically for auxiliary gas tanks on recreational vehicles. Excellent replacement for passenger cars and trucks where a straight hose with a minimal bend is required.
•   Suitable for use with gasoline, gasohol blends of ethanol, methanol, ethers , diesel and biodiesel to B20 (up to maximum concentrations allowed by the EPA).
•   Smooth oil resistant cover, tough textile cord reinforcement and petroleum-resistant nitrile tube.
•   Non-wire reinforced
•   Meets SAE 30R6 specifications.
•   Temperature rating: -40°F to +212°F (-40°C to +100°C)
•   Biodiesel (B20) temperature rating: -40°F to +212°F (-40°C to +51°C)
•   CAUTION:   Not recommended for marine gasoline applications

I'm using 9 mm slotless stainless steel clamps with stainless steel screws with two per neck-piece.  I am paranoid, but I am also experienced.

If the tank had not been damaged on arrival or if I had been closer to the shipper, I would never have thought to repair it.  The last thing I wanted to do was start redesigning the sheet metal of the tank to fit my car.

As I tend to say about the old cars I’ve owned, “I tend toward being a purist, but I’m not a masochist.”

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)