Single Stage or Base Clear?

[Bill Sgro]

I will be painting my 1970 SL in the next few months.  The color is DB 181 Light Beige.  It will be very lightly driven in Florida.  I want the best paint for appearance, durability and longevity.

What type of paint should I use?

[perry113]

These cars originally used a single stage paint.
However, many bodyshops will recommend that you paint the car with a base and clear system.
It is easier for them to do and it is more forgiving both for when they are doing the job and in the future if for some reason you have to refinish a certain area on the car. It is much easier to blend in a repair with base clear.
A really great job in base and clear generally gives it more pop or bling if you will.
If the concour judge is looking for perfection then they are looking for single stage.
Keep in mind that there are different grades and qualities of paint material that body shop can use.
The better the clear (more expensive) will make for a better job that will last down the road.
I am pretty close with several bodyshop ansd have a close friend that works for Kemperle Paint systems. He just sold a clear coat to a shop that was doing a concour quality job on a TR6 and the clear alone was $900!! You can bounce quarters off the finished hood and finished product is as nice as I have ever seen.
I hope this gives you more insight.
Regards
Peter

[DaveB]

Hi Peter,
Is it possible to reproduce the single stage appearance with a base/clear system?

[johnm]

 Hi Folks,
  I guess it depends on what your trying to achieve in the end relative to originality etc. but a year ago my 70, 280 SL was painted with a beautiful base coat plus 4 coats of clear. This allowed my Son and the painter he works with by day to wet sand and polish the clear to a mirror finish which is quite frankly brilliant and well beyond any factory produced paint finish found on today's cars. the extra coats of clear allows for wet sanding to be completed with little chance of a break through even on the curves and edges of the Pagoda. I waited 6 months to allow a full cure before applying polish and wax resulting in an even more brilliant finish. I can't stop anywhere without numerous comments and people asking who painted the vehicle. That's what I was looking for but not for all I'm sure. I look forward to other's comments and perspective. Wishing you the best of success with whatever road to a paint finish you choose.  John

[wwheeler]

Yes, there is a visible difference between basecoat/clear and the original single stage. And yes the clear is typically more spectacular, but is not original looking. I have sprayed many cars with both single stage and base coat/clear. I have always used PPG's top of the line with fantastic results. Typical gallon of color is now $500 and the clear is about $200. That does not include the hardeners and such. Like John said, the type of paint you use depends what you are after. The clear gives the color more depth and will never look like single stage.

IMHO, base coat/clear came about because of cost. Just look at the $ difference above. You spray two coats of color and the rest clear. Plus with clear, you can have many specialty finishes and it makes metallic colors easy to fix. So, many good reasons to use a clear top coat besides the look. Since I am a DIY and paint my own cars, there are blemishes. With base coat/clear, I can fix them easily. I am painting the '70 Roadrunner as we speak. See attached. BTW, that is not where the body was painted.   

[Bill Sgro]

I have had people tell me that after time the clear coat looses its luster.  How does it hold up over time?

I am 55 and have had my car for 30 years, and don't plan on painting it again.  My paint shop uses the top of the line Spies Hecker, with love and pampering will the clear hold up as well as single stage?

[wwheeler]

I'm no paint professional, but the luster comes from the clear. The base color when dry is a satin sheen. Then the glossy clear is shot on top of that. The base color is never touched again once the clear is shot on top of it. Clear can be buffed, wet sanded, polished or whatever over and over again with ease. Pros have been painting cars with this base coat/ clear system for well over 30 years, so I think that speaks for itself. Ask your shop and see what they say.

If you take care of paint, I think both systems hold up well over time. It is just a matter of the look you want. 

[Shvegel]

Single stage is actually getting hard to come by and not all formulas are reproduced.  Shine is shine and both done well will hold up to our occasional use.  I insisted on single stage as that is what is done from the factory and I wanted the same look rather than the "deeper" shine of a base clear paint job.

[mbpaul]

I guess I am a purist who wants the car as close as possible to what it was when delivered.  I chose to do the single stage paint and I actually had a hard time finding somebody who would do it.  I finally found an old time painter, Chuck, at Colorworks in Los Lunas, NM.  He has 2 shops.  One does the "modern" kind of base coat/clear coat.  The second small show, almost his hobby shop, is where he does the single stage paint.  Chuck actually does this painting himself and lets his employees do the base coat/clear coat painting.  Hard to get exactly the same materials that were used on the car over 50 years ago but he did it as close as possible. Result was magnificent!  I have shown the car in 4 car shows and have a blue ribbon from each show.  I guess that shows what other people think of the paint job. As you can tell, I am very pleased with my choice but it may be hard to find somebody with the same skills as Chuck.  And everyone has their opinions so do what is best for you.

[wwheeler]

I agree and think the single stage just looks right for these cars. A base coat clear coat looks over restored. But then there is the availability of the paint and trying to find someone who can do it right. I know a PPG store by me does not even carry enamel anymore. A Sherwin Williams store does, but is in a lower economy line.

When I spoke of the cost advantage of base coat/clear coat, it also applies to the labor of applying it. Not many people around who are willing or even know how. Kind of like getting the injection pump worked on.     

[Jordan]

Just out of curiosity, how many coats would be applied in the case of single stage?

[mbpaul]

On my car, 3 "wet" coats were applied with the next coats applied before the one beneath it had dried completely.  Chuck, the painter, said after sanding and polishing was completed, about two of the coats were left.

[Shvegel]

Applying single stage is really no different than applying clearcoat.  It is paint and although paint systems do all have their own quirks at the end of the day it is still a guy with a gun.  I think the shops reluctance to do a single stage paint job stems from a couple of different factors with the first being that most shops have mixing systems in house that allow them to mix their own paint.  However they are dedicated base coat systems that only allow you to mix base coat so spraying an odd single stage system means that all of their additives and thing they use to say correct fish eyes or other paint problems may not be correct.  If they knock over the can in the middle of the job they can't just mix more etc.  Another problem is most shops use dedicated spray guns for basecoat and clearcoat that are not only functionally different (the clear gun being essentially the same as you would use for single stage) but are kept free of contamination of the other system.  No matter how well you clean a spray gun there is always a chance of dried material being left behind inside the fluid passages of the gun so the clear gun is used for clear period.  This keeps you from spraying out clear on a lighter car and having a little shotgun blast of DB350H Mittleblau burst forth from the gun.

Finally there really isn't huge money to be made on complete paint jobs.  Even if you pay $15,000USD for a paint job they shop can do far more dollars worth of collision work in a much shorter time.  Complete paint jobs take time, they can be messy, they take up space and are often used a "Filler" jobs which means that when you are busy and you are not working on them they are just in your way.  So if you start specifying things like a different paint system or specific details to be adhered to you might come across as being too picky and a really picky owner can turn a low margin paint job into a money loser.  I know a handfull of shop owners who started out catering to the restoration or Hot Rod markets and quickly banished that crowd from the shop and started doing collision work.

[Taleb]

i am using standox Germany brand in the last 20 years for my all classic cars , and I just used it for my pagoda 2 years ago . because I live in Kuwait during June July with heavy dusty  season I sprayed it with nano ceramic coating its shiny all the time and protect it from the rust ... just wipe and go

[Shvegel]

Single stage DB350H. Notice how clear the reflection of my attic ladder is.

[franjo_66]

I am a big fan of the single stage paints....I know it's all personal

This is DB040G with a layer of Collonite wax